Star floor safe is kicking my butt!

[LockManipulator]

I've been trying to manipulate a floor safe for a friend that has one that came with the house but no combo. It says star on it and it has an s&g dial. I've looked up star floor safes and they all are round. And lift out. This one has a little T-handle on the door and it's a square shaped door that opens via hinges on one side. I've looked in National Locksmith Guide to Manipulation at the star push down floor safe to see if maybe that's the one. I have not yet checked to see if the dial pushes down but I just texted the owner and he said he'll check it when he gets home.

The graphs i've produced from this are almost all flat! The most variation is 1/8 of an increment at a time and nothing that looks like a gate. For security reason, I don't think I can take a picture of it but if there's any additional info needed, I can provide. I just want this dang thing opened!


And as a side note: If I take a job to open a safe, how much would a fair price be?

[CPT1911]

Hi Daggers,

Don't know anything about Star, but assuming it is an S&G group 2, when my graphs are super flat (or super erratic) it's usually because I am not getting good, accurate CP readings. I'm "missing" them, or sometimes subconciously "driving" the dial to where I think it should be. The fact that it's a floor safe could actually be making this worse. My first open was a floor safe and it was wickedly uncomfortable after a while. I tended to shift around and be inconsistent in my head position and hand position on the dial when testing CPs. I only realize this now in retrospect after some great responses to my thread called "I've decided I suck at this..."

I'd say one of the experts here can offer your more, but that's what I've found. There's been a lot of times where I find nothing in a graph, get the combo from my wife, and go back to regraph around the numbers only to be astonished that I completely blew past a good indication.

Have you tried graphing AWL, AWR, W3 in isolation, W2 in isolation?

[LockManipulator]

I initially started with AWL. I thought I found something but hi-low tests as well as wheel isolation proved it to be nothing. Nothing else came out of the graph. I repeated this about 2 more times before switching to AWR. Same results, nothing. I did isolate wheel 3 and graph just that wheel but that turned out to be nothing as well. I have not isolated wheels 1 or 2. Our schedules don't coincide often so it's hard to find time to get over there. I've been over twice and failed so hopefully I can win the 3rd round. Unless it is what I fear it to be, the push down type of lock, I don't have the tools to measure downward travel of the dial :/

[CPT1911]

That sounds pretty brutal. Hang in there man, you'll get it!

[Farmerfreak]

If it was a push in dial you wouldn't have been able to feel the normal contact points.

With that in mind, it's safe to say that it is not a push in dial!

[Altashot]

I think you would know if it was a push down. They feel way different. Besides, it has a T-handle, why would it need to be pushed down? It doesn't need to retract the bolts, the T-handle does that. Likely it's a 6700 series or a copy of one.
I have a hard time with floor safes too, I think gravity has something to do with it...That, and it's so damn uncomfortable, it hurts.

As for how much to charge, my lowest fee is $115.00, and that is for low security fire resistant containers or only key locking, you know the type?...For more "serious" safes, like the one you are attempting to open, I charge $450.00 and up.

Wishing you success!

M.

[10ringo10]

star round door floor safe !

[MrWizard]

Star square door safes never have the push down dial that is only on round doors.
It's just a standard S&G group 2 lock.

You can tell when you have the push down dial by turning it to 0 and push it down it springs back up.
Plus the dial will lift right off the spindle you can take it with you and hide it someplace if you like.
Richard

[LockManipulator]

Plus the dial will lift right off the spindle you can take it with you and hide it someplace if you like.
Richard

HAHA that just tickles my peach for some reason! But yea, Ringo, It has the star logo on in but on the door not the dial. The dial has s&g on it. I've looked everywhere but I can't find a square door star floor safe!!! Thanks for the price range Altashot, I had started on this before I even cracked my first safe lock and so the price was agreed on to be $20 But he has a friend who needs their safe opened too and so I'll ask for a good price for that!

[bitbuster]

daggers: you need to go to AMSEC. they acquired Star safes in the late '70's. on the homepage, put 'star' in the search window.

[Oldfast]

Been keeping an eye on this thread... hoping to see the magic word... OPEN!
Haven't chimed in with anything helpful only because I just dunno :/ Wish I did.
Cool safe and a neat opportunity though! I'm excited for you. Keep at it!

On second thought; are you reading in eighths or tenths? You mentioned your graphs are nearly flat with
very little fluctuation. Maybe reading in tenths would give the slightest edge you need to create some
distinction and start making some progress? I dunno, just tryn' to give ya somethin'... anything! lol

[LockManipulator]

Been keeping an eye on this thread... hoping to see the magic word... OPEN!
Haven't chimed in with anything helpful only because I just dunno :/ Wish I did.
Cool safe and a neat opportunity though! I'm excited for you. Keep at it!

On second thought; are you reading in eighths or tenths? You mentioned your graphs are nearly flat with
very little fluctuation. Maybe reading in tenths would give the slightest edge you need to create some
distinction and start making some progress? I dunno, just tryn' to give ya somethin'... anything! lol

hmm... I might try that next time. I've never read in tenths before, just eighths so it'll take some adjusting to get used to!

Bitbuster: The Brute floor safe looks like it. It has the little t-handle the lock is between the handle and the hinges. The front of the door looks different though, it's a pretty old safe I think.

[CPT1911]

Hey Daggers, any news??


I thought of your floor safe situation over the weekend while I was practicing. For whatever reason, the 6730 I was working on had a "sticky" lever. I don't know if the spring was shot or something was tweaked, but I found that it was behaving oddly. Then I started "tapping" the CP several times with the cam before taking the reading. I could sometimes actually hear a distinct "click" inside the lock body as the lever set into its final position. All I was doing was moving to the contact area, and turning the dial swiftly toward the CP and smashing a few increments past it, then coming back and taking the reading. I probably tapped about 4-5 times before the reading. On several occassion, the click happened inside the lock and the CR got more narrow. I disassembled the lock afterwards and found nothing, but it made me wonder if your floor safe graph was super flat because the spring wasn't pusing the nose consistently against the cam to get a true CP reading.

Just a thought...

[Altashot]

"Tapping" the CP"s like you described CPT1911, is a good thing to do with any lock.
It is something I do at every 3rd or 4th readings, to rattle the fence lever, to assure it drops to it's absolute bottom.

M.

[LockManipulator]

Sounds like a good idea! I haven't been able to work on it at all since mine and his schedules don't match often. It might be a while before I get to try again. I'll let you guys know if I get another shot!