WTF high low tests!!!

[LockManipulator]

An s&g 6730 has a combo of 15-45-60. I found 46 with AWL. 45, 46, & 47 both had a drop. I did high low tests for 46 and I got 9 3/4 contact area for both 1st and 2nd wheel and then 10 2/4 for 3rd wheel. WTF?!?!?! This thing just pisses me off! 45 is the 2nd number but there is an absolutely huge amount of evidence towards it being the 3rd number. Any help???

[CPT1911]

Hi Daggers. Story of my life bro. The Hi/Low test gives me consistent results in only one thing: making me INSANE.

I am not sure if I am answering your question from a technical perspective (why that's happening), but I can just tell you what I have settled on as a process after so many failed Hi/Low tests.

I should mention that I regularly train on 3 different S&G 6700s. Only one of those gives consistent results on the Hi/Low test.

It kills me because we all spend a lot of time learning to catch those gate indications, moving the dial carefully 2 or 2.5 increments at a time. BAM! THERE IT IS! You found the gate! Then your whole shit unravels when you can't figure out what wheel it is on.

I AM TOTALLY UNQUALIFIED TO GIVE ADVICE HERE, but this has been such a source of frustration that I have experimented a lot with different combinations of wheel isolation, high low tests, etc. It's my unqualified opinion that the reason the Hi/Lows often don't work is that when you advance 10 numbers (a totally arbitrary amount) you never know what you are going to get on that wheel. If I am doing Hi/Low tests, I often pick a few randomass numbers to dial to when moving the wheel off the gate just as an experiment, but even then it usually sucks.

I've found the best way is to avoid the Hi/Low altogether which is why I now go about it this way:

1. Start out parking W1&2 in the forbidden zone and spin W3 for it's gate (I'm sure this is not news...). If you catch it, the lock is basically open because the you are 100% on the first gate and which wheel it's on. And, when you park W3 at it's gate and search for the next gate, the next drop you find is usually more dramatic, and it's easier to wheel iso to figure out who owns the second gate (always W2 for me so far). BUT, if you spin W3 in iso and find nothing, it get's sketchy for me...next move is...

2. Spin AWL or R. Take take note of the most likely gate and the next lowest point. Lets say you see a gate at 50 and the next lowest point at 20. Set W1&2 on 20, and take W3 from 42 to 58 by 2's looking for the gate at 50 (the theory being that there was a high point on W1 or 2 in the forbidden zone that shadowed the gate in the first test above). If it doesn't show up with W3 in iso, park W1&3 at 20 and take W2 from 42 to 58 by 2's. It seems like parking the wheel not being tested at a LOW in the graph helps in finding the last one.

3. I usually find myself doing Hi/Lows anyway if I don't find the gate in the first test. I've tried it in a bunch of different ways, some where I put the wheel under test OFF the gate (looking for CR to increase), and some where I put the wheel under test ON the gate (looking for the CR to drop).

I'm sure you know all this, but I would love to hear your or anyone else's feedback.

I should add that the most effective technique I've found to determine who owns the gate is to do a bunch of inconclusive Hi/Low tests, get pissed, and then ask the person who set the fucking combo. Seems to work every time....

[LockManipulator]

Haha, I had to ask what the combo was 3 different times today! I haven't touched a dial in about a month so my skills got rusty as hell I totally forgot about isolating wheels! DUH! Ok, that's statistically most likely the fastest way. Since most of the time it will be wheel 3, doing an isolation test with wheel 3 is faster than a Hi-Low test; MOST of the time. Other's it will be slower if wheel 3 is not the culprit. I think on average though, the manipulation time will increase. I'm all about that speed

[fgarci03]

Daggers...
I can't explain why that happens. All I can say is that IT does happen. It happened to me too and I couldn't find a logic to explain it.

CPT1911 has already gave you the advice I was gonna give you so I can't add much to it. But Hi/Lo tests aren't always conclusive and may fail even when it absolutely looks they are pointing somewhere. Maybe some of the "older guys" know why this happens?

[torontosafecracker]

Ahhh Gentleman (and ladies if so be it)

Thank your for accepting me to this forum. I hope to contribute much.

Let me start off by saying Manipulation is much like picking a tumbler lock, in fact, I am better at manipulating group 2 locks than I am at picking 5 pin basic tumbler locks (i usually resort to snap guns) So much respect to those who pick those crazy locks with sidepins and tiny leprechauns that hold the lock shut without key ID.

That being said, think of the wheels like pins. Mechanical tolerances say that the wheels will not be evenly set, or the exact same height at any given number. Sometimes the third wheel @45 is not a gate, but just a low spot.

In this case, I'd test 45 on all wheels with a high spot as the other 2 numbers. (or 3 on a 4 wheel) the best reading would be my spot for 45, I'd isolate another wheel and move on. If it's not a gate, it's still progressing the 'read'

hope this helps.

Edit: I forgot to mention fence warp. Sometimes this contributes to odd high lows, in addition to uneven wheels, this can make manipulating hell, or fun, depending on your outlook..

[Neilau]

9 3/4 ---- there's your problem right there -- it's a wizard lock !!

[Oldfast]

...Thank your for accepting me to this forum. I hope to contribute much.

A big welcome to you sir! I'm Mike Good to meet ya.

Glad you're here, and VERY much welcome another 'spinner' to learn from

[CPT1911]

Welcome torontosafecracker! Glad to see this forum is growing! Sounds like you know what you are talking about so I'm looking forward to reading your future posts!

Trevor

[Mikeh727]

Hi Daggers. Story of my life bro. The Hi/Low test gives me consistent results in only one thing: making me INSANE.

I am not sure if I am answering your question from a technical perspective (why that's happening), but I can just tell you what I have settled on as a process after so many failed Hi/Low tests.

I should mention that I regularly train on 3 different S&G 6700s. Only one of those gives consistent results on the Hi/Low test.

It kills me because we all spend a lot of time learning to catch those gate indications, moving the dial carefully 2 or 2.5 increments at a time. BAM! THERE IT IS! You found the gate! Then your whole shit unravels when you can't figure out what wheel it is on.

I AM TOTALLY UNQUALIFIED TO GIVE ADVICE HERE, but this has been such a source of frustration that I have experimented a lot with different combinations of wheel isolation, high low tests, etc. It's my unqualified opinion that the reason the Hi/Lows often don't work is that when you advance 10 numbers (a totally arbitrary amount) you never know what you are going to get on that wheel. If I am doing Hi/Low tests, I often pick a few randomass numbers to dial to when moving the wheel off the gate just as an experiment, but even then it usually sucks.

I've found the best way is to avoid the Hi/Low altogether which is why I now go about it this way:

1. Start out parking W1&2 in the forbidden zone and spin W3 for it's gate (I'm sure this is not news...). If you catch it, the lock is basically open because the you are 100% on the first gate and which wheel it's on. And, when you park W3 at it's gate and search for the next gate, the next drop you find is usually more dramatic, and it's easier to wheel iso to figure out who owns the second gate (always W2 for me so far). BUT, if you spin W3 in iso and find nothing, it get's sketchy for me...next move is...

2. Spin AWL or R. Take take note of the most likely gate and the next lowest point. Lets say you see a gate at 50 and the next lowest point at 20. Set W1&2 on 20, and take W3 from 42 to 58 by 2's looking for the gate at 50 (the theory being that there was a high point on W1 or 2 in the forbidden zone that shadowed the gate in the first test above). If it doesn't show up with W3 in iso, park W1&3 at 20 and take W2 from 42 to 58 by 2's. It seems like parking the wheel not being tested at a LOW in the graph helps in finding the last one.

3. I usually find myself doing Hi/Lows anyway if I don't find the gate in the first test. I've tried it in a bunch of different ways, some where I put the wheel under test OFF the gate (looking for CR to increase), and some where I put the wheel under test ON the gate (looking for the CR to drop).

I'm sure you know all this, but I would love to hear your or anyone else's feedback.

I should add that the most effective technique I've found to determine who owns the gate is to do a bunch of inconclusive Hi/Low tests, get pissed, and then ask the person who set the fucking combo. Seems to work every time....

Yeah, another old post I'm dredging up and sort of hijacking...sorry Daggers!

Trevor...DAMN! You and I are following similar paths, although I'm WAY behind you. I'm not a fan of high-low testing just working with my first lock....the results were BARELY different, so it was more of a guess than skill that got me to the right place. But what I found here that is useful to me is this:

BUT, if you spin W3 in iso and find nothing, it get's sketchy for me...next move is...

After I opened the lock and started drilling with it, I'm amazed that I found the third wheel gate. It is VERY subtle. So I played around with your ideas. W3 is just a bitch, but iso on 2 with 1 and 3 at a low point was helpful.

Not speedy, but effective. So I have to say this...

I AM TOTALLY UNQUALIFIED TO GIVE ADVICE HERE

NOT TRUE!

Thanks for getting me just a bit further in developing my skills. I just mounted lock number two today. Headed off for a long weekend in Wisconsin, and although I'll bring the locks, I probably won't get to spin until next week.

Thanks for the great info!

-M