Manipulating group 1 locks?

[LockManipulator]

So I was wondering if there is anywhere online with information on the manipulation of group 1 locks. I've been looking and can't find anything at all! I know there are different methods for different models since the way they deter manipulation varies but I would've thought that there would be at least some material on the more popular models such as the s&g 8500 series. Does anyone on here know how to manipulate these s&g locks and is willing to share?

[houdini1]

alot of group one locks just have smaller gates there are only a few which are manipulation restistant but
not pick proof la gard and think s&g 1947 think it that code also a pushin one and of course the manifoil mk 1v

[CPT1911]

What about a Group 2M? Anyone manipulated a LaGard 3332 or a S&G 6630? I have one of each that I haven't mounted yet because I am terrified.

Any experience?

[houdini1]

whats up with them locks then you havent mounted exept 4 wheel is there any anti rumble strips or manipulation devices in them if not no difference but a fair bit of shadowing lol

[torontosafecracker]

Not only are the gates more narrow, The fence is usually wider. 2M locks (2 Hour Manipulation resistant) have an extra step required before the lever is 'tested' against the wheel pack, such as stopping the dial at 0, pushing the dial in to drop the fence, and then returning back to the C.A. (contact area) making it a longer process

[CPT1911]

Not only are the gates more narrow, The fence is usually wider. 2M locks (2 Hour Manipulation resistant) have an extra step required before the lever is 'tested' against the wheel pack, such as stopping the dial at 0, pushing the dial in to drop the fence, and then returning back to the C.A. (contact area) making it a longer process

Hi toronto! So I've been working with the S&G 6630 2M and the LaGard 3332 2M, and unless I am missing something, I am not seeing the "extra" step you describe for 2M locks? Can you teach me more about this?

Both of my 2M locks include features designed to make life difficult for the manipulator to be sure. The 6630 has false gates and an eccentric roller in the nose that effectively changes the external dimension of the nose on a random basis resulting in tons of noise in CP readings. Meanwhile, the 3332 has linkage which pulls the nose away from the cam to remove the conventional technique of reading LCP/RCP when testing wheel pack. What 2M models require the steps you describe? Or am I totally missing something on how the 2M locks I'm experimenting with actually work?

Honestly, 2M is currently the holy grail of manipulation for newb like me, and I haven't seen any details on 2M manipulation on this site. I would LOVE to learn to manipulate the 6630, but I have not figured a consistent way of working around the eccentric roller.

One thing I have tried with some success is taking each RCP reading 5 times witha quick, random dial oscillation between each reading. You can see the readings change as the roller gets placed in different positions. What I shoot for is the "lowest" of the 5 readings and graph that--the idea being to get the roller in approximately the same position each time the readings are taken. The problem is that every now and then, you miss something because the roller simply won't "sit" in the lowest poistion, even after several little back and forth motions.

I've got a theory on the false gates which I'll share another time, but for now, the roller is what is getting me.

Can anyone detail a manipulation, maybe show some sample work, on a S&G Group 2M?

[LockManipulator]

I need to get myself a 6630! Those sound fun! I would also really like if someone could post up something on manipulating these things

[torontosafecracker]

I have very bad days sometimes. I'm still fairly fresh to this so I'll admit my mistake, the lock I was referring to was a MP from s&g and not a 2m. I'll look at my files and reply fairly soon.

[torontosafecracker]

The 2937 and 8500 utilize the feature I was speaking of. these are '20 hour manipulation proof'(MP) The ones you are talking about (2M) like the 6630 are '2 hour'. I know of the false gates, but not of the erratic lever

[torontosafecracker]

I won't go into great detail, but false gates do add time to the manipulation but can also be an aid to the process.


Edit: Feel free to PM me any questions.