? Art Metal safe lock

[Oldfast]

An interesting safe lock listed on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321196722094?ss ... 1438.l2649

I'm curious. Can anyone enlighten me a bit?

Particularly interesting is the lever. I've never seen one like that. What's the second extension for?
Also, there's a piece that comes up and wraps around the drive cam. Part of the re-locker I think?

[echoplot]

Art Metal Construction Company is an old metal furniture company. Started in the late 1880's and went under in the 70's. They also made safes from 1914 until the early 50's apparently.
Not sure about that second protrusion on the lever, but that other bit on the bottom that curves around the cam definitely looks like some sort of relocker. Looks like it might rotate to allow that springloaded pin to enter into an unseen hole in the bolt if the wheel pack or cam get punched out.

[GWiens2001]

Not sure, but that second protrusion looks like it is there to give two 'drop in' points, one of which is false. It would make manipulation more difficult. What do you think?

Gordon

[Squelchtone]

damnit, I was watching that, someone bought it.

I think the lock itself is a Sargent & Greenleaf based on the the shape of the case, the materials used, and the shape of the lever and nose. And mainly the S&G crowsfoot on the dial.

Very nice locks for whoever bought it.

*jealous*
Squelchtone

[Oldfast]

@Echoplot... Thanks for that bit of history. Much older than I thought then.

@Squelch.... Sorry friend, lol. Hopefully me posting the link didn't do it.
Wasn't me. I found it quite interesting, but it's a little outta my price range.

@Gordon... Honestly, I'm having a really hard time invisioning how exactly the second extension
would interact with the drive cam. The more I look at it though-- I dunno if it would even make
contact with the cam to create another contact point. In fact, if it were in line with the cam, you
wouldn't be able to retract the bolt. Instead, maybe it is thinner the the nose and actually rides
above the cam? But even if I'm right, that still doesn't shed any light on what the purpose of it is.

[GWiens2001]

Was looking at the picture on my cell phone. Now that I have blown it up, can see it does not make contact. Looked like it was touching.

Gordon

[Oldfast]

Yeah... lol... you'll have that with phones sometimes. At any rate, you have to agree this is an
interesting lock, eh? To me it's not a $100 worth of interesting, lol, but interesting nonetheless.

Hopefully someone will chime in and give us some insights into this beauty.

[echoplot]

Oldfast......I think I figured it out. Or at least how it's designed....but not quite why.

It's a gravity drop lever, which from the photo, it looks like that lock is only good for RH (and maybe VD) mounting. For LH, you need a left hand model.
That second nose actually rides over the top of the drive cam. Those two circular raised areas on the face of the cam look like contact points for that nose.
As for why....I can only figure a couple of reasons. Either more contact points to try to thwart manipulation, or simply mass to attract more gravity ( )

Check out what I've found....

Doing an image search I came up with this page.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Antique-Safes-3774/2012/2/old-s-g-safe.htm
Check out the S&G lock photo. It's a different model lock (assuming the Art Metal is actually a rebranded S&G), probably a later, more refined design, but very similar nonetheless. It gives a good side view of the lever nose, and the unique cam design yeilds more information about the way they interact.

Then running the model number from that page, I came across this page.
http://www.security.org/search/MFG_02.cfm?MFG=SARGENT+%26+GREENLEAF
On that page is this record, which describes the lever as a gravity drop.
http://www.security.org/search/Willis_01.cfm?SECURITY1__RECORD_NUMBER=341

[Altashot]

Based on echoplot's first link...

...Ahem! -The left leg on the drop/fence lever it to assist in throwing the bolt. Whether it be a strait or roller bolt, If the safe's boltwork was not fully extended to the Locked position, upon spining the dial to Lock, the bolt would butt against another part of the boltwork.
If the bolt was only "nose" driven, a condition could occur. If the safe was forcefully closed, or as I like to call it, "disrespected", The drop/fence lever would be forced upwards towards the bump in the casing where the cover "line-up pin" is located...Follow me? this condition could led to the drop lever to get pinched between the drive cam and that said bump. It becomes "nose wedged". In this state, it can be very hard to retract the bolt and/or the boltwork, especially if the door was closed at the same time as the boltwork was thrown AND the dial was spun... It seem far fetched, but it happened. the boltwork would become wedged in the frame and it would put great force against the bolt that would drive the lever to a "nose wedge." this would result to a seized dial. Forcing it could result in a broken spline or even a sheared spindle.

The left leg is there to force the bolt out without forcing the nose up into the bump, therefore it does not disturb the fence's location and it's relation with the gates. If a condition like the one I described above was to occur, the pressure against the bolt would push that left leg into the drive cam and would force it to turn, re-seating the fence within the gates without disturbing the harmony...-

I hope this made sence...

the 4 contact point can be confusing, but a seasoned "cracker" knows how to exploit them as well...

M.

[Oldfast]

Echoplot.... some mad digging skill my friend! I suck at that shit. Thanks so much for sharing your findings!

....If the safe was forcefully closed, or as I like to call it, "disrespected", ....

Haha! Disrepected... I like that. "Nose wedged", that's interesting. And I never realized that could happnen.
After reading your explanation several times, lol, I think I can invision what happens & how this could occur.
Thank you for explaining this! I was completely unaware it was possible. How often do you encounter this?

....the 4 contact point can be confusing, but a seasoned "cracker" knows how to exploit them as well....

The old C-66 Echo linked to; I can see and understand how four contact points are created.
But am I correct to say there's just your standard two in the safe lock I was looking at?