Groups in Combination Locks

[fgarci03]

Hello guys,
I've been meaning to ask this for a while and only now got to do it!


My question is more of concepts, so here goes:

1) What groups of locks exist? I know Group 1 & 2. Heard about a group 3 sometime ago.
2) How are they distinguished from each other? (I know Group 1 locks are better and all, but never really understood what they differ exactly)
3) What about Group 2 M or R? And the same in group 1? I know it's manipulation resistent (are R's the same as M's?), but how? Just false gates on wheels?

I know these are very idiotic questions, but I just have to ask

[magician59]

A Group 1 lock is manipulation proof. 1R refers to radiation attack resistant (Plastic or nylon wheels to resist radiological compromise).
A Group 2 lock is standard equipment on most safes. Many can be manipulated.
Never heard of a Group 3 lock, unless it's a new class that includes the electronic locks.

[mastersmith]

"R" is radiological attack resistant. As in Xray, one of those government regs.

[GWiens2001]

There are group three locks. Quick summary - junk. Think Sentry safes and their ilk.

Gordon

[Oldfast]

...I know these are very idiotic questions, but I just have to ask...

Not really. I still don't fully understand all the classifications and the variety of features that can come with them.

I talked a little bit about some of the different groups here, but it's BY NO MEANS a comprehensive guide.
It might at least give you a rough idea anyway. I've since come across locks with security features I wasn't
even aware of at the time. I have a few locks I haven't mounted yet, (or have mounted & photographed)
but haven't had the time to attempt manipulating/documenting them. I will say that some of them have
some pretty interesting and rather intimidating drive cams though

[fgarci03]

Thank you all for the help

[ARF-GEF]

FG in Europe we have a much much better and detailed safe and lock classification. It is very helpful, thought there might be smaller quality differences between locks in one category, from the security level viewpoint locks in the same EN class are truly interchangeable.
So according to EN1300 there are 4 categories of safe locks: A,B,C,D. Some safe categories require more locks to be installed.
A is a basic lock, but B already provides serious security. C,D is more for top level safes and D is actually primarily for vaults.

Same for safes. There might be quality differences, but generally 2 safes of the same category with same category locks are identically secure. At least from the consumer point of view, though when you get down to the nitty level there might some differences.
Some people believe it's all about the thickness of the steel others I know are great fans of new high-tech fillers so the difference inside one class realyl comes down to small issues and personal taste and previous (often subjective) personal experiences.

The safes themselves are also classified in a very helpful and meaningful system. (Classified according to the Europe wide EN1143-1 Standard.) For the consumer this basically eliminates most hardships in choosing a brand, if they are in the same category, they offer pretty much the same safety. (Some quality issues and personal preferences might be there, but at the end of the day same category- same level, that's it.)
It starts with S1, which is basically the better sentry safe's level, after that comes S2 which is a decent small value safe, a bit above the sentry safe level. Then it goes to EU 00 then to EU 0 which means better wall safes.
After that it goes on with Roman numerals (what a nice, classy touch if you ask me) from EU I to EU VII for stand alone safes then up until EU XIII for vaults.
These categories then specify what lock is to be used (For example EU IV requires 2 Class B safe locks or above).
The classes also have an expected minimal strength, qualified in so-called RU (Resistance units). For example an EU 00 safe has 15RU for partial entry and 24 RU for total entry (i.e. opening the door), while EU II has 50 and 80 accordingly.

To help consumers safe classes have a value limit assigned to them. That is the upper limit of the coverage the insurer will pay for the contents if the safe is insured. For example with EU II it's around 135 000€ or 180 000$. (With alarm.)
For a S2 it's 17 000€ or 23 000$ (with alarm), but for a EU III it's 240 000€ or 311 000$.
So that gives you a picture what safe should you get for what value. Naturally if you get a better safe or better lock your insurance fee will be lower.

They are issued and approved by independent testing organisations on behalf of insurers. Every category has a corresponding value limit (one with and one without alarm) up to which the insurers (generally automatically) approve coverage.
So the testing is quite rigorous the insurers are not crazy to cover a safe higher than they think it an reasonable defend.
From EU III an alarm system is obligatory. An EU III safe is already considered highly secure, almost an overkill for even for very rich home users, but I think for normal home users anything over EU II is unnecessary unless you keep a ton of gold and diamonds and extremely valuable jewellry in it.

[fgarci03]

FG in Europe we have a much much better and detailed safe and lock classification. It is very helpful, thought there might be smaller quality differences between locks in one category, from the security level viewpoint locks in the same EN class are truly interchangeable.
So according to EN1300 there are 4 categories of safe locks: A,B,C,D. Some safe categories require more locks to be installed.
A is a basic lock, but B already provides serious security. C,D is more for top level safes and D is actually primarily for vaults.

Same for safes. There might be quality differences, but generally 2 safes of the same category with same category locks are identically secure. At least from the consumer point of view, though when you get down to the nitty level there might some differences.
Some people believe it's all about the thickness of the steel others I know are great fans of new high-tech fillers so the difference inside one class realyl comes down to small issues and personal taste and previous (often subjective) personal experiences.

The safes themselves are also classified in a very helpful and meaningful system. (Classified according to the Europe wide EN1143-1 Standard.) For the consumer this basically eliminates most hardships in choosing a brand, if they are in the same category, they offer pretty much the same safety. (Some quality issues and personal preferences might be there, but at the end of the day same category- same level, that's it.)
It starts with S1, which is basically the better sentry safe's level, after that comes S2 which is a decent small value safe, a bit above the sentry safe level. Then it goes to EU 00 then to EU 0 which means better wall safes.
After that it goes on with Roman numerals (what a nice, classy touch if you ask me) from EU I to EU VII for stand alone safes then up until EU XIII for vaults.
These categories then specify what lock is to be used (For example EU IV requires 2 Class B safe locks or above).
The classes also have an expected minimal strength, qualified in so-called RU (Resistance units). For example an EU 00 safe has 15RU for partial entry and 24 RU for total entry (i.e. opening the door), while EU II has 50 and 80 accordingly.

To help consumers safe classes have a value limit assigned to them. That is the upper limit of the coverage the insurer will pay for the contents if the safe is insured. For example with EU II it's around 135 000€ or 180 000$. (With alarm.)
For a S2 it's 17 000€ or 23 000$ (with alarm), but for a EU III it's 240 000€ or 311 000$.
So that gives you a picture what safe should you get for what value. Naturally if you get a better safe or better lock your insurance fee will be lower.

They are issued and approved by independent testing organisations on behalf of insurers. Every category has a corresponding value limit (one with and one without alarm) up to which the insurers (generally automatically) approve coverage.
So the testing is quite rigorous the insurers are not crazy to cover a safe higher than they think it an reasonable defend.
From EU III an alarm system is obligatory. An EU III safe is already considered highly secure, almost an overkill for even for very rich home users, but I think for normal home users anything over EU II is unnecessary unless you keep a ton of gold and diamonds and extremely valuable jewellry in it.

Holy crap, thanks for that info!
How are those categories defined then?

I mean, in Europe, Group 2 safe locks aren't used that often, so how can I classify them?

Thank you man, that was really was a valluable piece of information!