S&G 8088

[mivski]

I have recently bought a S&G 8088 padlock, without a combination. ($0.99, so couldn't resist!).
http://www.lockwiki.com/index.php/S&G_8088

I've got some theories on how I may be able to decode it, but was wondering if anyone else has experience successfully decoding this lock, or suggestions/ideas.
Thanks!

[ARF-GEF]

Those are pretty hard to open. If you have access to really strong X-ray devices those can help

[mivski]

A U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission memo from 1982 has the following to say:

Obsolete Combination Padlocks [...] The current NRC-acceptable combination padlock is Sargent and Greenleaf Model 8077A. Its predecessor design was identified as Model 8088, appears to be currently available and is in use at some licensee facilities. The Model 8088 units can be easily defeated, do not meet the terms of Executive Order 12356, are not approved by GSA, and are not acceptable for the protection of either classified material or safeguards information.[3]

This has me wondering... then they say 'easily defeated', do they mean easily defeated using radiological attacks? Or is there perhaps some information that the lock gives away about the internal state of the wheels?

[ARF-GEF]

Honestly, I'm not sure. :S
There can easily be a method to defeat it of which I am not aware. (If there is please let me know:) )
Maybe they mean it's easily defeated in a destructive manner.
Or maybe it's easily defeated by NRC and GSA standards, but that does not mean we humble mortals can easily defeat it.

I don't really thing it's sth glaringly easy or obvious to use, they did use those padlocks in GSA approved environments before, so even though they might no longer meet the standards I would say they are still very formidable.

Anyway: interesting bit of info, great find!

[keymaster1053]

A U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission memo from 1982 has the following to say:

Obsolete Combination Padlocks [...] The current NRC-acceptable combination padlock is Sargent and Greenleaf Model 8077A. Its predecessor design was identified as Model 8088, appears to be currently available and is in use at some licensee facilities. The Model 8088 units can be easily defeated, do not meet the terms of Executive Order 12356, are not approved by GSA, and are not acceptable for the protection of either classified material or safeguards information.[3]

This has me wondering... then they say 'easily defeated', do they mean easily defeated using radiological attacks? Or is there perhaps some information that the lock gives away about the internal state of the wheels?

Send a PM to Elbo Macaroni. I think he can explain it.

[mivski]

Thanks for the tip! I'll reach out to Elbo Macaroni.

Not that this is likely to be affordable, but if I would want to take an XRay of the lock, where would I be able to do that? Outside of a medical facility. I've had a quick look around, but couldn't find anything. I guess it isn't something people are likely to do, and it would be less fun than decoding it through manipulation.

[fgarci03]

Or if you want, you can sent it my way if you wanna do business


I don't know any special method for those. Can they be manipulated like safe locks?

[Riyame]

Or if you want, you can sent it my way if you wanna do business


I don't know any special method for those. Can they be manipulated like safe locks?

While it is theoretically possible the tolerances are so good that it is extremely difficult to the point of being almost impossible.

[fgarci03]

It's better than a safe lock?

From the pics, it looks like a direct entry fence, you say it would actually be more difficult than manipulating a safe?


I TOTALLY WANT ONE OF THOSE

[MrWizard]

Good luck decoding that it isn't going to happen without destructive method to the changed key opening, drilling holes, or removing the pins that hold it together. I had a pile of them with no combination. Good for inside use only for security as the shackle is so small and unprotected. Also only rated for inside use as water and dirt is it's enemy. Great to practice changing combinations if you already have the combination.

Richard

[mivski]

So... only non-destructive ways to open (that are know) are radiological attack or possibly build an auto-dialer? :/

Edit:
Riyame: I would love to hear about the theoretical attacks that are possible!

[escher7]

Lockwiki says the lock is vulnerable to manipulation and radiological attacks, but no further info. They also have great pictures. Here is one:


[EDIT: Elbow] It is NOT okay to copy images from other websites and upload them here. It is a violation of the site rules.

[escher7]

And the 8077 is apparently resistant to both manipulation and xrays. Lockwiki picture:


[EDIT: Elbow] It is NOT okay to copy images from other websites and upload them here. It is a violation of the site rules.

[escher7]

And finally, the dial of the 8077 has a cover to make peeping harder:(the 8077 lists at over $400!!)


[EDIT: Elbow] It is NOT okay to copy images from other websites and upload them here. It is a violation of the site rules.

[escher7]

Sorry for all the posts but this lock interests me. Here is a U-tube video showing how to dial the combination, which is NOT like a master lock. The video reveals that the factory default combo is 10-20-30 which you might try.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpQGF4i8QVE


[EDIT: Elbow] It is a violation of the site rules to bash other lockpicking sites. Also, I know most of the staff at that site and you were not banned (temporarily banned at that) for merely inquiring about skirting the rules regarding access to their advanced forums. In fact, you were temporarily banned for the manner in which you chose to conduct yourself in a conversation with one of the staff members in regards to their declining your request for early access (which is something they don't do for anyone, not even long time professional locksmiths.) As this rule violation is one of several in this thread alone, I am adding a warning notice to your account in relation to these violations. Please in the future be mindful of the rules or you will find yourself banned here as well, although I would prefer not to have to go to such extremes. Thanks. - Elbow