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Globe Wernicke safe

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1930

Familiar Face

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Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:43 pm

Location: Florida

Post Thu May 16, 2013 6:17 pm

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Cant seem to get anyone that can tell me a few of the things I would like to know at this point so I went ahead anyway and dove into it myself. I have now the dial separated from the rest of the unit. Very strange thread between the knob and stem, reminds me of a tap, very coarse and not a whole lot of thread.

I am sure someone has been into this thing before.

Laying the disk on a flat surface really shows how it is warped, holding it alone in the hand and you would never guess it too be warped.

I cannot imagine that new 2 inch disk is un-available but I have not had anyone tell me either way even though I have asked on how to find one.

Maybe not a whole lot of interest cause its not technically a safe I dont know.

Notice the serrated teeth where it splines onto the shaft, these features are going to have to match obviously on the replacement if one were too be found.

Anyone have any suggestions on keywords I could use within google to do a search for this disk?
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Squelchtone

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Post Thu May 16, 2013 6:59 pm

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

1930 wrote:Thanks for the info, lock shop today told me that ZERO lubricant was originally installed, he was very insistent about that, makes sense to me, I have to still ponder on it though.

Can you go into further detail about this............Only other thing I can think of is on your spline key. It's not really recommended, but if you don't have another, you CAN reuse it. Use a ball peen hammer to flare it back out a bit. You want it to fit very
firmly. You shouldn't be able to push it in by hand. You'll have to tap it back in with a hammer..................

I need to look back earlier in the post to make sure I am understanding the terminology correctly but I think I know what you are referring too as the spline key. I had no idea it would be a problem re- using it in the first place.

Has too be someone on this site that recognizes the dial face/post set-up and can tell me if they separate. Would be so much easier to repair that dial if it were by itself.

I do not believe the threaded shaft is bent in the least

The dial key is a definite BIG problem, when the dial is turned it will drag against the case as it wobbles around due too being bent. If I tighten the dial too much to compensate for the slack than it wont turn at all.

Where are these experts? I need some help here


Hi, that's a nice safe and lock you have there! =)

Your lock is a Yale model 0402 which is the smaller brother of the famed Yale OC-5 lock. Used from 1930-1950. If your wheels are 1-5/8" diameter this would confirm that. (info from a Dave McOmie safe book)

[EDIT: I just saw your reply with taking it apart. not sure how I missed it. I gotta say that you have be a little more patient bro, we're not servants or sitting by to answer questions, if it takes 8 hours or a day or two, you gotta understand we all have jobs and families, so it's gonna take time to get replies. Your wierd threading is new to me, so yay, congrats on taking it apart. Below are my instructions that are worthless to your lock, but may help someone else on theirs]

There is a very good chance that the Yale logo is a coin that is pressed into the face of your dial. Once removed (IF you can carefully pry it out, you'll see the spindle (threaded rod) in the hole with another spline key holding it to the dial. You may or may not have enough meat on the spline key to grab and pull out, you may have to push it deeper down the spline, or drill it out. Once done, the dial should unscrew from the spindle shaft. If it doesnt look on the back, the dial may be pressed onto the spline and some prying or torque may be necessary to unscrew the dial. Usually there is no reason to take dial apart that far, but I can see you need room to bang on the dial to straighten it out. If it is at all possible to not take it apart all the way, try to avoid doing so.

Don't neglect to remove the dial ring from the door to clean and inspect it. It's also nice to have in your hand to put the dial into and give it a spin to see how the straightening is going wherever your vice is.

Once you're ready to repaint the dial and the white numbers on it, let me know and I can show you what I did to accomplish that.

As for lubrication, my and old locksmith guy I know told me that on old brass safe locks the "brass lubricates itself". That was his answer to me asking what grease or oil to use on an old Mosler I was restoring. I still think it's good to put some grease or oil on parts, but that's just me.

As far as your spline key dragging on case... do you mean the dial dragging against the dial ring on the outside of the front door?

Hope this helps,
Squelchtone
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Squelchtone

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Posts: 361

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Post Thu May 16, 2013 7:16 pm

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

1930 wrote:Anyone have any suggestions on keywords I could use within google to do a search for this disk?


This is an antique item, you will not find them selling replacement parts just like getting a new throttle linkage for your 1990 Craftsman lawnmower.

You will not find a replacement dial just like that on sale at any shop or locksmith or supply house, maybe an exact one like it on ebay, but that might be a year or two wait. I'm a tenacious son of a bitch when it comes to tracking old parts own, and this one is at the top of the impossible list. You could get stupid lucky and walk into 10 locksmith shops in your area and maybe have 1 locksmith find you one in a dirty greasy cardboard box and it will be in the same or worse condition and he'll want $50 bucks for it. I went through the same hassles looking for Mosler parts for 3 months. Finally found a guy with a safe just like mine and he sold me the entire lock from his safe before he scrapped the safe.

The only way to restore this is to bang it out and make it as flat as possible, and use the original part. Then strip it and repaint it and bake in oven for a durable finish. We can talk about that process once you flatten it out, and it spins like a dream in the dial ring.

Sounds like you got yourself a fun project,
Squelchtone
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1930

Familiar Face

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Post Fri May 17, 2013 4:33 am

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Cant assume I was assuming anyone was my servant or should be at my beck and call, Im not a useless putz that sits behind a keyboard and waits for someone to give me all the answers to lifes problems. I have been out in the real world asking questions trying to collect info and am not coming up with much of anything of use ergo my comment .......Cant seem to get anyone that can tell me a few of the things I would like to know...........

Dial dragging against dial ring was a big help, describes exactly my symptoms and the lingo sounds much cleaner/direct to me as well, thanks for that.

Thanks for the tip on removing the dial ring, I was going to do that anyway but I would not have looked at it as closely as I will now.

Ive had one person tell me the parts were avail and one tell me no way so at this point we are even I guess, the person whom told me parts are avail cant seem to tell me avail from where so at this point I am going to have to agree with un-avail.

I am going today to start working on coming up with some way of straightening the dial, I could use your repainting info, that would be a big help, not far off from that. Thanks for the reply
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femurat

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Post Fri May 17, 2013 5:53 am

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

You have a very nice safe, as others have already said, thanks for sharing the pictures and story about your restoration project.
I'm with Squelchy about the extreme difficulty in finding spare parts of old and uncommon safes. Be careful and restore your parts, it's not that hard.
I received a safe lock that was shipped with the dial assembled, so the spline got bent in transit. I thought it was impossible to straighten it up but I was wrong. I managed to straighten it pretty well, and then passed the thread with a die (that luckily was in my tap and die set) to restore it too. Now it works like a charm.

Good luck and keep us updated :)
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Squelchtone

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Post Fri May 17, 2013 8:54 am

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

In my thread I meant to include a photo of a dial where the safe company name cap pops off and behind it is another spline key holding the dial to the spindle.

hope this pic isnt too big for the forum:
Image

As for getting people to answer your questions, this is a dying art and it was something that was rather guarded information for the last 100 years, passed on from one safe guy to the next. Much of the information is lost to time, and there are no service manuals or part numbers, especially for the smaller lock and safe companies. Even large companies such as Mosler, half the records are missing because of fires. People often say "I have a safe serial number xxxxxx what was the factory combo?", someone MUST know over at corporate.. well.. corporate hasn't been around in 15 years, Diebold bought them and doesn't really want to help, and most serial numbers were lost in a fire years ago. So that's how it goes in the antique safe world. There are maybe a couple dozen true experts in the US, who I would call experts on old safes, I myself am a beginner. There is one guy named "Andy" who seems to know a lot, he answers questions here: http://www.allexperts.com/ep/3774-10272 ... n-Andy.htm maybe he could find you a replacement dial or the proper name or part numbers. Again, it would be used stuff, nobody has new dials like that in a baggy on a shelf. Post Andy the photos of your dial taken apart, he'll probably have an answer for you.

Here's a quick preview of the dial repainting process:

Image

Squelchtone
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MBI

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Post Fri May 17, 2013 11:45 am

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Sorry I don't have anything constructive to add to this discussion, but it's always so gratifiying to me, to see an old piece of equipment like this being restored and put back into service. Thanks to everyone here for sharing their input, advice and pictures in this thread.
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1930

Familiar Face

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Location: Florida

Post Fri May 17, 2013 12:15 pm

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Thanks for each and every reply, I had NO idea about this............As for getting people to answer your questions, this is a dying art and it was something that was rather guarded information for the last 100 years, passed on from one safe guy to the next. Much of the information is lost to time, and there are no service manuals or part numbers, especially for the smaller lock and safe companies. Even large companies such as Mosler, half the records are missing because of fires. People often say "I have a safe serial number xxxxxx what was the factory combo?", someone MUST know over at corporate.. well.. corporate hasn't been around in 15 years, Diebold bought them and doesn't really want to help, and most serial numbers were lost in a fire years ago. So that's how it goes in the antique safe world............If I would have known that at the front than it would have answered alot of questions.

To be honest I was starting to assume that none of the so called experts that WAS mentioned at the beginning of this thread were not commenting on my safe because as far as from what I have read its not technically a safe, not that I am very good on computers if you go to google and type in Globe Wernecke safe the first thing you hit is some guy badmouthing them, that tidbit of info shows up in repeated threads on google, this guy says they have zero collector value ( well if thats true than why did I choose to collect it ) zero monetary value, ( if that true than why did I pay 75 bucks for it ) and wasnt even technically an antique since its not quite a hundred years old.

I do not like this kind of talk and thinking, I think anything built probably prior to maybe the 50s or so is worth saving cause its well made by people in the country that worked hard to take care of what they had to take care of and took alot of pride in their work.

BTW I guess it is a safe, just not the most secure safe to put ultra high dollar stuff in, thats Ok I dont own anything that ultra high dollar.

Anyway I found it hard ( and still kinda do ) that these dials are so unique that they are not just sitting on shelves, I mean how many different variations to a dial do they need to make? Evidently they needed to find ways to make them cheaper cause the versions they already made lasted too long!
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1930

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Post Fri May 17, 2013 12:36 pm

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Back to topic I had some extra time today and I believe I fixed the dial ( I hope )

What I first did was sit down with a rubbing stone and some ATF and slide the dial across it repeatedly making sure to turn it every few seconds so that I did not get it ground down too much on one side. Id like to say I sweated with this and worked all day but it may have only taken 20-40 minutes or so. Soft brass, moved pretty easy.

I dont know if you can see it in the pictures but I learned to know when it was flat by looking at it, I figured when it was bright and shiny all the way around its circumference than chances are I had hit all the low and high areas.

Unfortunatly when I was done with this it looked great when held at eye level but looking down upon it or into it as I would have when dialing it the eggshape really stuck out. I contemplated leaving it alone cause I was already losing parts of hash marks on the dial.

In the end I decided I could not live with it, I do not have many high tech machine tools at my disposal and didnt want to ask favors. I do however have just about any air tool or hand tool one would need to do some pretty un-ordinary things so I came up with this simple jig to get an even circumference.

I started out with 36 on my grinder and hit it real light while spinning it by hand, moved waay too much material at one time, I then went to 80 grit on my mini DA and then polished with a 180.

I did not lose any of the strike marks but yes they are shortened a bit. Its not perfectly round but I have a very good eye and my eyes are happy with it and without careful scrutiny one would never know.

Best part is that I assumed now I would have just a bit of a gap between the dial and the escutcheon ( I think the proper term was dial plate ) I was going to live with that but too my happiness there is no gap, appears as if it were never repaired once inserted back into place. :)

EDIT: OK I can see now that I blow up my pictures there is a small gap there and that only makes sense but that is with the flash of the camera highlighting everything. It looks good anyway PERIOD !

I think I was incorrect in thinking that the dial was bottoming out within the dial plate, I think now that the problem was within its out of roundness, I think that chances are better that it was rubbing the outer circumference of the dial plate as it was spinning. I think this because I KNOW i removed some serious material from the outer edge of the dial and yet it still seems nice and tight to the dial plate.

Anyway I also cleaned it up sorta and am looking forward to any tips toward it finish.

I do paint and body for a living and would be all over restoring the entire safe but one thing that holds me back is the beautiful paintwork on it. Can anyone tell me if these labels ( on the inside of the door ) were hand-painted ?

I am assuming the large lettering on the outside of the door itself are hand laid but what about the GLOBE insignia just above the center of the door on the main body of the safe.

I couldnt bear to lose all of that.

I finally bought some lighter fluid and am going to hopefully have luck with removing the decades old tape all over it. After that done maybe its back onto the lock assy.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Fri May 17, 2013 4:31 pm

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

1930 wrote:Thanks for the info, lock shop today told me that ZERO lubricant was originally installed, he was very insistent about that, makes sense to me, I have to still ponder on it though.

Can you go into further detail about this............Only other thing I can think of is on your spline key. It's not really recommended, but if you don't have another, you CAN reuse it. Use a ball peen hammer to flare it back out a bit. You want it to fit very
firmly. You shouldn't be able to push it in by hand. You'll have to tap it back in with a hammer..................
By flaring it out, I just meant.... lay the spine key on a flat portion of your vice or something and tap it repeatedly (but lightly)
until it makes it a little wider. The spine key needs to solidly connect the drive cam & spindle... so the goal is to expand it just
enough for a nice tight fit. Not so much that you have to beat the hell out of it with a hammer to insert it... but if you're able
to insert it with your hand, then it needs to be tighter. If it were to losen up too much, it could create a lockout.

1930 wrote:...Cant seem to get anyone that can tell me a few of the things I would like to know at this point so I went ahead anyway and dove into it myself...
I agree with Squelch - you sometimes have to be patient for answers. Sometimes it takes awhile & other times they don't come at all.
It can be frustrating when the answers never come (I know, lol). That's when it's time to say, "hell with it, I'll figure it out on my own"...
just like ya did :D Nice job!! It's starting to look great!

On the "to lubricate, or not to lubricate" question - if you decide not to lubricate; after de-greasing and cleaning thoroughly,
you might consider using Brasso on any of the brass parts (wheels, drivecam, etc.) It seems to not only brighten but leaves a
really nice smooth surface that would help reduce friction. Anyway, just a thought.

Squelchtone!!!! That's some GREAT how-to info!! Thanks
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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1930

Familiar Face

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Location: Florida

Post Fri May 17, 2013 11:30 pm

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Will do than on the spline key, thanks for an otherwise un-known tip that could have spelled disaster
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1930

Familiar Face

Posts: 33

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:43 pm

Location: Florida

Post Wed May 22, 2013 4:01 pm

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Hi guys, I know its been a few days but I am managing a few projects. As it turned out nothing would take that tape off the safe except full strength body shop lacquer thinner. Buffing also worked with a heavy duty compound but I found that method to take no less paint with it than the lacquer thinner and was a bit slower. There are still areas where the tape had been on their so long that the glue has impregnated itself down into the paint but for the most part it is gone.

I spent several hours sanding it with 2-4000 grit on a wet DA and then buffing and finally waxing. Not real thrilled with the variation of colors now but I was starting to lose too much of the lettering on the safe to get any more aggressive on those areas. I am still tossing around re-painting it but then I will have what looks like a new safe and I do not want that either.

Anyway just for the heck of it I had a few moments this A.M to toss back in the dial and the safe now opens and closes like new, I hit the combo every time and the dial spins like butter, not too much slop but not too tight either.

I plan to re-move the dial, re-finish it and put it back together only greasing the shaft where it rotates, I figure it cant hurt there.

I am still in need of the one wheel pictured below, I have only the three, does anyone know of anyone that just has collections of these things? I am not wanting to replace all 4, I want to keep it as original as I can so I will be looking for that one.

I am in no rush and if this is read two years from now my e-mail is jhason2@yahoo.com and yes I am prob. still looking so if you can help please let me know. Thanks
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Squelchtone

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Post Sun May 26, 2013 7:19 pm

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

1930: as luck would have it, the ebay gods have come up with a Globe safe lock on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-GLOBE-WERNI ... 58a076a5df

if it only had the dial.. but in case you're looking for any other internal bits, this may help,
Squelchtone
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1930

Familiar Face

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Post Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:02 pm

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Hopefully this will swing this topic back to the top, yes its me again. I still have the safe and have been using it regularly but never bothered to lock it and now that I want to lock it have again forgotten the numbers and have forgotten how I originally solved the mystery of the numbers.

Im gettin old. Can someone clue me in on how I did originally find the safe combo.

Ive read over all the posts I made about this safe online on different forums and I state several times it was easy but I have stared at this thing and played with it for several hours this evening and cant for the life of me figure it out.

Thanks for any assistance.

BTW Im still lookin for that wheel 3 years later
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Riyame

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Post Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:18 pm

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

The inner part of each wheel will have a small line on it that will point towards the number. Wheel 1 is the one at the bottom of the stack (closest to the cover) and will be the first number of the combination, the middle is the 2nd and the top one is the 3rd. You need to take it apart to see which number is set on each wheel.
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