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Globe Wernicke safe

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1930

Familiar Face

Posts: 33

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:43 pm

Location: Florida

Post Tue May 14, 2013 4:12 am

Globe Wernicke safe

Picture 097.jpg
Picture 097.jpg
Hi guys, another project so some more questions.

I picked up this safe/storage container this weekend and have finally figured out how to get the code to open it. Was not overly difficult just took a certain amount of study and playing around with it.

Now I am hoping to pull the mechanism apart and hopefully take some of the slop out of it, lubricate everything and put it back together and hopefully it will work all of the time. At this point I am only getting it some of the time and I am sure that is because of wear and a lack of lubricant not allowing things to move around as they should.

Can anyone give me suggestions on removing the dial, cleaning and painting the dial. I do not plan to restore the safe, I like it as is but the dial numbers and strikes are barely visible and so I am pretty sure that is a big part of the problem opening it.

I also need to know what type of grease to use, I know it cannot be any sort of paste grease, there are items that need to move very freely in there. I was thinking a moly-cote I use for gun mechanisms.
Picture 097.jpg
Picture 097.jpg


I am also looking for any information about the safe, I was told by vendor that he pulled it out of a building in ST.Petersburg Florida which is less than an hour from my home but I googled the name on the front of the safe and only come up with Hearst building as a name of a building in N.Y. Hard to believe that this this was dragged down here from N.Y but I guess its possible.

Could the number 40 mean 40th floor? Just a guess.

I am having a heck of a time getting all the ancient tape off, I am not wanting to damage the finish, so far I have tried WD-40 with so-so results, Eucalyptus oil with no results, I am going to try lighter fluid next. Again my biggest concern is damaging the finish, thanks for any advice.
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Last edited by 1930 on Tue May 14, 2013 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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fgarci03

Contributor
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Post Tue May 14, 2013 4:18 am

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Can anyone give me suggestions on removing the dial

After removing the lock body doesn't the dial come out?


About the grease, I use silicone lubricant/grease. It's very clean. I used to use it to grease rubber O-Rings on SCUBA diving gear, so it's really a light grease.
Hope you manage to service the whole thing and show us pictures :mrgreen:
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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1930

Familiar Face

Posts: 33

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:43 pm

Location: Florida

Post Tue May 14, 2013 4:20 am

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

fgarci03 wrote:
Can anyone give me suggestions on removing the dial

After removing the lock body doesn't the dial come out?


About the grease, I use silicone lubricant/grease. It's very clean. I used to use it to grease rubber O-Rings on SCUBA diving gear, so it's really a light grease.
Hope you manage to service the whole thing and show us pictures :mrgreen:

Wow that was fast, not sure what you mean by body.....I have shown pictures now, at this point nothing dumps out the front, maybe it is just stuck because of its age?

Have to head off to work now but I appreciate your response and will check back in later
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fgarci03

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Location: Porto/Portugal

Post Tue May 14, 2013 4:28 am

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Lock body is the lock itself, what you have in your hand on the last picture.
Well, without seeing the lock I can't be sure, but the dial should be free by now. Could you take picutres of the dial? And the back of the safe where the dial is on the other side? Maybe there is something that holds it in place. If not, it's probably because of it's age.

Wow that was fast

Haha it was luck! I was refreshing the page and it poped, so I throwed in my 2cents! Later today the pro's will be here and help more than I can dream of :drool:
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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Riyame

Keeper of the Bests / Supreme Overlord of Small Format Interchangeable Picking Nightmares

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Location: Canada

Post Tue May 14, 2013 5:45 am

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

If you are unsure if something will damage the finish it is best to test it on the back of the safe. For removing really old tape I use a product called Goo Gone. I put some on a paper towel and hold it over the old tape to let it soak for a bit then gently try to rub it off.
PhoneMan: I always knew I'd say something stupid and it would be someone's sig
macgng: i am an equal opportunity pervert
macgng: aww fuck thats goin in someone sig :-(

If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic.
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1930

Familiar Face

Posts: 33

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:43 pm

Location: Florida

Post Tue May 14, 2013 5:17 pm

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Thanks for the replies guys. With a few minutes of fiddling with it and cleaning off the grease I was able to figure out how to remove that dial/knob, hard to explain but hopefully these pictures will do. There is a little brass key that needs to be pulled out, it aligns a keyway on the brass disk on the inside with a keyway cut into the threaded dial arm, after that is removed the dial simply un-threads.

Now my biggest problem I am thinking is that someone must have beat the hell out of the dial at one point, it is contorted ( I know it is hard to see in the picture but the dial face is bent and twisted ) pretty good out of shape, once it is brought back into shape than I can easily see how I can adjust the dial so that any slack is taken up but at this point it has the slack because it has to remain loose so that it will spin freely being once again out of shape.

I am wondering if the dial can be replaced? It is approx 2 inches in Diam. I turn to the experts on this.
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1930

Familiar Face

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Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:43 pm

Location: Florida

Post Tue May 14, 2013 5:41 pm

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Maybe one of you guys can tell me if the dial face itself can be removed, can it be broken down even further than this? I am thinking I am not going to find a replacement unit so I am trying to come up with a way to straighten.
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1930

Familiar Face

Posts: 33

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:43 pm

Location: Florida

Post Tue May 14, 2013 6:21 pm

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Maybe this is a better picture of what I am up against. I have cleaned the unit and do not see how the dial faceplate can be removed
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Tue May 14, 2013 7:38 pm

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

The brass key is called a spline key. The brass disc you are referring to is the drive cam. And the threaded shaft you are calling the dial arm is the spindle. (Please don't take offense, just trying to tell you the names.)

On some locks the spindle can be removed, but on many they can not. Having never serviced a Yale safe lock, I can not say for sure. However, you are likely to be best off getting a new dial. Yes, they can be purchased. If the dial is as bent up as you say, the spindle is likely bent as well. That is nearly impossible to make perfectly straight, and it does need to be straight.

Thank you for sharing the pictures of this safe and lock. As Oldfast would say... "I love gut shots!"

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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1930

Familiar Face

Posts: 33

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:43 pm

Location: Florida

Post Wed May 15, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Thanks, someone pointed out on another forum ( and it only makes sense ) that the dial ( the deal with the numbers and lines on it ) was not beat on but was instead prob damages moving the safe around or maybe it fell on its face at one point, I say it makes sense because there are no strike marks on the face of this, it has not been beat on in other words.

Thanks for the clarification on the terminology, I dont know why anyone would take offense

Can you tell me if the IDENTICAL dial/know assy are available, I am an original freak and hate to change things around to modern equipment. If it is available where might I get one. I plan to take my dial assy to a local locksmith/lockshop today but I am already anticipating either the glossy eyed no clue at all look or the dollar signs chaching look.

Thanks for your help, I guess you are the pro's that you referred to in an earlier post.
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1930

Familiar Face

Posts: 33

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:43 pm

Location: Florida

Post Wed May 15, 2013 3:46 am

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

I would like to hear any comments on another reply made to a post concerning this safe I made on a tool forum I am part of located here http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/inde ... ic=8184.15

Very nice group of people by the way if anyone here is interested in old tools.

Anyway its good to get multiple opinions because there is usually more than one way to cut a piece of paper. I will copy and paste the post below. Thanks for any time and interest in this...........

OK, first off, it's what is called a "Cast Iron Safe" in the box trade. We used to get $100 up to get rid of them back in the 70s.

Thats a shame but I guess it only makes my own piece more unique

The "Paint" is black asphaltic varnish, composition depends on what mood the painter was in that day for the most part. It's close to japaning that hasn't been baked, and at this point in time harder than Buzard Breath's head.

Paint color is green inside and out. Definitely original finish

The lock pack is standard Yale, half of the safe makers in the country used them. Your dial got mashed either when some fool forced the box through a doorway or dropped the box on its face. Setting the combination is a walk in the park on that wheelpack.
The standard lubricant for the wheelpack is a slight coating of Vasiline ONLY on the bearing surface of the wheel and hub faces of the wheels. Aslo a slight film on the dialplate bushing.
Make damn sure you put the wheels back in the proper sequence or you'll have a lot of fun.

That makes sense, the more I thought about it I came to the conclusion that since there was no heavy/direct damage to dialplate it could not have been beat on in frustration.
Tell me how to set the combination on the wheelpack, I would like to know for reference

The dialplate can be reworked on a lead anvil with appropriately shaped brass or aluminum punches. Repainting is easy. First you paint the black background and let it DRY THOROUGHLY. Then you smear a paintstick into the lines and numbers and wipe the excess off the black. You'll do it a few times before you get the technique.

Can you go into more detail on the paintstick technique, I know nothing about this and at this point do not know what a paintstick is ( other than for mixing paint ) or how it works. Now that I re-read your comment I think a painstick must come in various colors, you are saying to smear it in the lines to fill in the lines and then too wipe it off the face of the dial without wiping it out of the lines and then allowing it to dry as well.

It's strictly a fire box. When the box is exposed to heat the door swells and seals against the frame. It takes a week to cool one after it's been in a fire so you can open it. That's a good thing because if the box is opened too soon the contents will burst into flame as soon as they get air. Temperature of contents inside the sealed box didn't matter because the limited contained air prevented ignition.

Good information, thanks for that.

The "Insulation" is a mixture of plaster, mica and sand. There is no asbestos in the mix, it would have served no purpose.

Info I found on-line stated prob. asbestos, over and over again on different sites but none sounded so sure, only guessing that the manuaf. that was sued over manufacturing these safes/boxes because of copying another box put asbestos in these as well. Sounds like you have had them apart though so good to know and that you can confirm.

The configuration of the interior determines what the box was sold as originally, office, jewelry etc.

That would prob. make mine office than

In the 70s these safes were desired, other than the ones weighing over 2000#, by photographers for storage of their processed film. Today they are only desired by loonietoon decorators who pay $500 + for the 3 foot square boxes, more if they have gold leaf.

Well I only paid 75.00 so I guess if I should ever choose to sell I will be OK ( I have zero intention of selling, I do not buy to sell )

Now, you want to know how to get into one that's locked up? Yes I do
No Rusty, pulling the hinges won't make it happen!
Last edited by 1930 on Wed May 15, 2013 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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1930

Familiar Face

Posts: 33

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:43 pm

Location: Florida

Post Wed May 15, 2013 3:47 am

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Did not place my responses in red as was originally done, I do not know why but my responses to a post made concerning my safe are within the text.
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GWiens2001

User avatar

Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Wed May 15, 2013 4:22 am

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Unfortunately, I am not one of the pros referred to above. But I do know a few online and in real life. I ask questions, and listen to their chatter. I have been lucky enough to pick up a few tips. Hang out at seedy places like this one, and you hear things. ;-)

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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Oldfast

User avatar

OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Location: Michigan

Post Wed May 15, 2013 6:08 pm

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

What a beautiful safe, and a wonderful project. Wish I could help more, but honestly I have
ALOT to learn myself. Especially when it comes to older/antique safes. But I'll touch on a few things.
1930 wrote:Now I am hoping to pull the mechanism apart and hopefully take some of the slop out of it, lubricate everything and put it back together and hopefully it will work all of the time. At this point I am only getting it some of the time and I am sure that is because of wear and a lack of lubricant not allowing things to move around as they should.
I dunno for sure, but I've a feeling your cleaning and lubricating might remedy that 'hit & miss' symptom.
I had a similar experience with this old Yale. It seemed to work just fine... but to every 8-10 sucessful
dialings/opening.... there was one fail. The problem I found was one wheel dragging another. After
cleaning & lubricating though, all wheels moved freely & independently from each other. According
to the fella I opened and fixed it for... it still works great today.

1930 wrote:....I also need to know what type of grease to use....

I've wondered the same thing... but have never recieved an answer. As far as the suggestion you recieved on the
other forum you posted on - VASILINE?! Not saying that's wroing (I really dunno), but personally I would be VERY
reluctant to use that.
S&G's locks come lubed from the factory with AeroShell 22. In their manual/guide, they prefer you use that...
but they also suggest several other recommended lubricants including: Novagard Versilube G-322-L, or
Dow Corning Gn Metal Paste. That's about all I can say on that. Hopefully it helps.

In regards to replacing the dial; If the spindle on it is not bent (or bent only slightly), then I would consider
focusing your efforts on refurbishing it rathter than replacing it. I think you might be waiting & watching
for a while to come across the right one. And when you do finally come across the right one, just as you've
mentioned, you may find it's quite costly. When I first started manipulating, I was able to find locks for
around $15 - $30! But now it seems alot of people want some insane money for some pretty normal shit.
So often times, the prices on antique/collector one's are even more outrageous.

Only other thing I can think of is on your spline key. It's not really recommended, but if you don't have
another, you CAN reuse it. Use a ball peen hammer to flare it back out a bit. You want it to fit very
firmly. You shouldn't be able to push it in by hand. You'll have to tap it back in with a hammer.

Most of what I've mentioned is probably elementary... but hope it helps. If I had more expeience &
knowledge... I'd surely give it! But it wasn't all that long ago that I got started into safes either.
Thanks for sharing and please keep us up-to-date :) I love lookin'
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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1930

Familiar Face

Posts: 33

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:43 pm

Location: Florida

Post Thu May 16, 2013 3:57 am

Re: Globe Wernicke safe

Thanks for the info, lock shop today told me that ZERO lubricant was originally installed, he was very insistent about that, makes sense to me, I have to still ponder on it though.

Can you go into further detail about this............Only other thing I can think of is on your spline key. It's not really recommended, but if you don't have another, you CAN reuse it. Use a ball peen hammer to flare it back out a bit. You want it to fit very
firmly. You shouldn't be able to push it in by hand. You'll have to tap it back in with a hammer..................

I need to look back earlier in the post to make sure I am understanding the terminology correctly but I think I know what you are referring too as the spline key. I had no idea it would be a problem re- using it in the first place.

Has too be someone on this site that recognizes the dial face/post set-up and can tell me if they separate. Would be so much easier to repair that dial if it were by itself.

I do not believe the threaded shaft is bent in the least

The dial key is a definite BIG problem, when the dial is turned it will drag against the case as it wobbles around due too being bent. If I tighten the dial too much to compensate for the slack than it wont turn at all.

Where are these experts? I need some help here
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