LC on manipulation tour: Demolition Yard (pics)

[Libertyclicks]

While cruising classified ads I sometimes see ads for safes. Since I have a working knowledge of safes now I got a little more adventurous with my learning.
One seller had multiple safes for sale. Only a couple advertised having the combinations.
I emailed the place and said I was a locksmith apprentice who was learning to manipulate safes. I got a very interested call back the next day, and they agreed to let me come try their safes out.
I received an email stating the names and serial numbers of 3 safes. When I got there I found 9 safes.

The guys working there were fun and helpful to my cause. The owner wanted one small safe for himself, and the others he is interested in combos since it makes them more valuable.
Safe details to follow...

LC

[Alaphablue]

Sweet keep us posted Lc I will follow this post hope you get one open .

[Libertyclicks]

Chubb Mosler Taylor

2013-03-18_13-48-20_237.jpg

A nice freestanding safe... probably 3' wide by 4' tall and 3' deep.
Dial had a privacy guard on it but was dinged up looked like by a hammer or something heavy hit it in transit.
Dial was really stiff, almost impossible to move, and reading any info was impossible ( for me) .
Good news is this safe was locked but with the door open.

cmt open1.jpg

The door had a back cover on it held in by 8 screws. It is all ready removed in this picture.

cmt open 3.jpg

Close up of the lock. It's a 4 wheel system with glass plate relocker. The drive cam has a drop in area of 0-10 and is furthest from the camera. The fence is gravity and can be set up for left or right hand mount.
I've never worked with a 4 wheel or gravity fence but as you can imagine it's no big deal. 5 right, 4 left, 3 right, 2 left, then right one and a bit to open it. The bolts were really rusty and after I opened it the first time I couldn't get it to close again to actually free up the lock so I could work out the combo, so I had to get some brute force help to budge it again.

cmt open 2.jpg

The glass plate relocker is sandwiched between the lock and the door and when shattered a tension line that is holding a locking pin down is released and the pin springs up to stop the mechanisms in the door from moving.

I waited for no one to be around and then I dialed the front while looking in the back to get the combo.

cmt combo.jpg

[Libertyclicks]

Meilink with Sargent and Greenleaf 6700 series lock

meilink 1.jpg

This safe was open but with no combo. No problem . I will manipulate it as much as I can today, but I'll eventually look at the combo. I've read that meilink safes have a couple different locks usually but they all cheap and easy to crack, so I wasn't surprised when this one had a shiny S&G on it's face instead. I regret I did not take a picture of this safe further back, since I worked with it the most today. It was a burglary safe about 2.5' tall and 2' wide, 2' deep. The same size as the "All American" safe I will show next post...
This safe was on short legs, the all american was on wheels.

meilink sng lock.jpg

Ahhh .... Haven't played with an S&G yet, I guess today is the day. This picture was taken after I counted the wheels and found the contact points. In the pic it is resting on the right contact point. I knew I was going to have a good day. I spun for 10 minutes and had a number. I was excited. I looked in the back of the lock to see if I was right. I was. I got a second number, then the client arrived and started being real skeptical and pushy. I told him it was slow going. He asked questions , I gave vague answers, he left. I went back to spin spin spin and opened up the S&G. I wish I hadn't looked in the back because the opening was bitter sweet since I was cheating throughout.
I jotted down the combo.

meilink sng inside.jpg

Pretty sharp little safe I think. Again this picture I have removed the back plate on the door so I could snoop around. The S&G was in really good shape, easy to read, no sticky flys or anything. It had a "relocker" which the client and others around there asked me about. I explained how it worked and they all felt the same way about it "Oh well just add such and such and then it will be safer".
Until someone cracks that... then add some more junk, then that gets beaten, add more, etc.... I can see security sales pitches have really gotten to people over the years.

The client returned and I told him I have the combo. He now wants the combo changed, yeah well I don't have the tool, oh well I'm a handy guy I'll make one.

change key homemade.jpg

An hour with a medium allen key and a grinder and voila, a shitty combo change key. I'm sorry to everyone who is reading this and crying. The combo change key didn't work very well and could have damaged the safe but it didn't I got lucky. After I used it to set his combo, wheel number 2 didn't relock completely and was spinning limply just by adjacent wheel friction in the wheel pack. I had to take the lock apart after that and use a screw driver to relock wheel 2. Don't tell anyone but I may have ruined that wheel forever by using my sketchy equipment. The good news, I put it all back together and the new combo worked, I tested it and then closed and locked the safe. I was pretty nervous that wheel 2 could break at any time and then I would have really screwed this safe up. All was well, the combo worked and I taught the client how to open it. He was coming around to me now.

[Libertyclicks]

All American with S&G

All American closed.jpg

A closed AND locked safe with no combo. Oh ohh ho ho hooo this is getting good:)
It's a burglary safe about 2.5' tall and 2' wide, 2' deep. On wheels. Safe is pretty light, probably 70 pounds you could make off with it easily enough but it seems sturdy. S&G dial on it. Reading contact wasn't too consistent but doable. I didn't find out till later on in manipulation but the fly is sticky on the third wheel. Not a big deal but I did notice it after trying to brute force wheel 2.
I didn't have much trouble getting started on this one... I graphed out and found a couple interesting spots. In hindsight I'm not sure about the first number, but by the end of the day I DEFINITELY had the third number at 44. It was amazingly obvious when I got that number, and the lock tried to open as I ran w2 around but it never came open. I think if I review my charts and had another hour with it I could open it. But who really knows.

all american 3.jpg

I also took this picture of the lock giving my wrist a break. I can include some of my graphs for input a little later.
Happy times, I probably won't be back there to work on it more for a while, but I'm not taking no for an answer from this little number.

[Libertyclicks]

Taylor Safe

taylor brown.jpg

A Taylor floor safe. 3' X 3' x 3'.
A very attractive unit, subtle detailing. Unfortunately someone decided to wrap the moving pieces in masking tape and spray paint the hell out of it. Oh well. I peeled off the tape and had a look at her.
Again, I wish I took more pictures.
No tension on the handle, probably less than 5 degrees of rotation play. The dial was really nice, easy to grip, the dial index was an upside down star. I could kill whoever sprayed this safe, the overspray was making it hard to read some numbers on the dial.
I spun the dial full left, then came back right and counted 3 wheels. Ok, good for a start. I had a hard time finding contact and went all around twice before finding it.
I made a very worrying graph that made me think I was screwed on this one till about 3/4 through then found literally one number that had a different reading than the rest. That graph was perfectly flat except for that one dip. But when amplified that one dip was a perfect crescent. How interesting .
Difficulties with this one:
It was cold outside, so I had to return indoors to get feeling in my hands, then go back out.
There was a pile of rubbish right in the way which I asked the staff to move for me but they never did. So I took all my readings at a strange angle.
Contact was very hard to glean any info from.
I am not familiar with Taylor at all. I may not even have the right dialing order or number of wheels when I think I do have the combo. I don't believe it's gravity but it doesn't matter, I have to assume it was working properly before and all I have to do is dial the right combo then turn the handle.

So I can show charts of this one as well. I worked on it for over an hour and I "think" I got one number. At least I hope I did or I can't get this thing open, unless I have to tension the handle, which I considered..... no I did try that, all the way around the dial both ways slow and got no feedback.

[Libertyclicks]

Taylor Safe

taylor black.jpg

Another Taylor safe just like the one previously mentioned. 3 x 3 x 3 feet.
It had older paint, black with blue detail, knob turned free. I did NOTHING with this safe other than that though. I had a busy day as it was. More to come.

taylor black 2.jpg

[Oldfast]

Ahhhh MAAAAN! You lucky son-of-a-bitch! LOL. I'm so jealous.... but at the same time, VERY excited for you!
Really, what great opportunity!!! So glad you took some pics to share with us and look forward to any updates.

[jeffmoss26]

VERY COOL!!

[mastersmith]

If that Chubb was "dinged" that bad, it is probably causing the dial to bind against the dial ring. Real easy adjustment to make the dial spin as it should. Just center the dial in the ring . I hope you get a little something if you give up those combos. Good Luck.

[Squelchtone]

LC: excellent post, and very nice photos! I wish I had such places here where people let me practice. I was at a restaurant last week fixing a CCTV recorder and the owner needed the safe combination changed on his depository safe, his day manager said it couldn't be done without calling a locksmith, so after the day manager went back to the kitchen, I produced a change key from my wallet and changed it for them, and taught the owner how to dial it =)

My locks are all packed up now and ready to move to a new house in the next few weeks, I hope to return to learning manipulation when I'm settled in.

Thank you for the inspiration!
Squelchtone

[femurat]

Holy crap I envy you so much right now
Thanks for sharing with us your experience, I'm following you learning more and more and I'm impressed.

Cheers

[Libertyclicks]

Thank you all very much for your encouragement and interest. I'm really looking forward to going back there for more work and pictures. It was a huge lucky find for me and I'll be dreaming about opening that brown Taylor safe. I'll try to get those charts posted so you guys can see the fun I've had.
Any hints on that Taylor would be really appreciated, I haven't had enough time to research lately.

[Libertyclicks]

If that Chubb was "dinged" that bad, it is probably causing the dial to bind against the dial ring. Real easy adjustment to make the dial spin as it should. Just center the dial in the ring . I hope you get a little something if you give up those combos. Good Luck.

I agree I think the dial is just binding against either the door or the security cover on the dial. I hand spun the wheels in the lock and they turn fine that way. I asked them if I can pull it out and service it but the client said not to bother. I don't think he really cares about how well it works, he is just selling it for more money now that he has the combo.
I really like that chubb, it was fun to see the action of the bolts and bars moving with the handle. I would love to sit down with a grinding wheel in a warm heated room and take all the rust off of her and pull the lock and getting running nice. Polish up all the manufacturer emblems and take off the stupid stickers from long dead security monitoring companies. I wonder if I can convince them to pay me for that.... I might have to quit my day job. (not likely)
I have to get that Taylor open first!
LC

[Oldfast]

That "All American with S&G".... the safe itself looks awfully simalar to this one viewtopic.php?p=66107#p66107
Of course, there's no telling what exactly is installed on that one. Pretty good odds it's an S&G lock though.

Just throwin' out some ideas here, but if you've indeed confirmed w3 has a sticky fly, you could try:
using w2s' drive pin to 'smack' the sticking fly on w3 a few times before it arrives at its' destination.
The hope is that you'll bring the fly to its' maximum range of movement, creating for some consistancy.

I have a good feeling about this one.... I think you'll crack it