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Slimline Push Button Lock Box

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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:06 am

Re: Slimline Push Button Lock Box

grit1 wrote:If anyone is interested, I did an Excel spreadsheet with a rigorous list of all possible combinations for these locks. The numbers are interesting - the most combinations are in the 5-number band. I can E-mail my file to anyone interested.

That's interesting grit. I dunno if I'd necessarily want it... but I am curious;
how many pages roughly would it be if you were to print out this spreadsheet?
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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grit1

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Post Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Slimline Push Button Lock Box

Oldfast wrote:That's interesting grit. I dunno if I'd necessarily want it... but I am curious;
how many pages roughly would it be if you were to print out this spreadsheet?


Oldfast - it looks like the whole thing comes out to about 45 pages printed. You could play with the font and layout and get it smaller, but that's what it's at right now.

Maybe I should just post the interesting conclusions:

The total number of possible combinations is at a relatively paltry 838.

The combinations fall into the following distribution:
combinations with 1 number: 10
combinations with 2 numbers: 45
combinations with 3 numbers: 120
combinations with 4 numbers: 209
combinations with 5 numbers: 247
combinations with 6 numbers: 123
combinations with 7 numbers: 56
combinations with 8 numbers: 21
combinations with 9 numbers: 6
combinations with 10 numbers: 1

I figure a large number of people using these lock boxes will choose a 4 number combination - 209 isn't such a huge keyspace that it would take very long to brute force an answer.

If anyone concerned with security wants to choose a secure combination, they should choose a 5 number combo, as they get a slight (38 combo) advantage over 4 number combos.

I figured all of this out by exhaustively listing all possible combos. I haven't been able to find a mathematical model to describe the keyspace. Anyone have any ideas how to succinctly express this keyspace?
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flywheel

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Post Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:41 pm

Re: Slimline Push Button Lock Box

Are your numbers right? The easiest to examine is the following.
012345678
01234567 9
0123456 89
012345 789
01234 6789
0123 56789
012 456789
01 3456789
0 23456789
123456789
There are ten possible 9 number combinations.

How about 8 number combinations? Here are the excluded numbers from each combo. That gives forty-five possible combinations in this range.
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
34 35 36 37 38 39
45 46 47 48 49
56 57 58 59
67 68 69
78 79
89

The rest might be labor intensive.
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scudo

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Post Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:06 pm

Re: Slimline Push Button Lock Box

Not sure I understand the maths
The total number of possible combinations is at a relatively paltry 838.


If one is using say 3 digits and can only use each number once would that not equate to:
10 x 9 x 8 = 720
with 4 digits 10 x 9 x 8 x 7 = 5040

I havent watched the video as my speakers went `bang` this morning so I may have missed something.
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flywheel

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Post Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:08 pm

Re: Slimline Push Button Lock Box

scudo wrote:Not sure I understand the maths
The total number of possible combinations is at a relatively paltry 838.


If one is using say 3 digits and can only use each number once would that not equate to:
10 x 9 x 8 = 720
with 4 digits 10 x 9 x 8 x 7 = 5040

I havent watched the video as my speakers went `bang` this morning so I may have missed something.


This doesn't take into account that 1234 is the same as 4321, 1342, etc...
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scudo

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Post Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:21 pm

Re: Slimline Push Button Lock Box

OK I see its combinations rather than permutations, I found this which may help.

combo.JPG


http://stattrek.com/online-calculator/c ... tions.aspx
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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flywheel

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Post Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:28 pm

Re: Slimline Push Button Lock Box

Good find. Let's add them all up.
1: 10
2: 45
3: 120
4: 210
5: 252
6: 210
7: 120
8: 45
9: 10
10: 1
Grand total...1023!
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huxleypig

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Post Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:48 pm

Re: Slimline Push Button Lock Box

But in reality I would say that a good 90% of combos will have 4-6, which leaves 672!

Or maybe more likely 3-5 because everyone I know classes "C" as a button (as in, it is pressed first to clear the lock) which gives 582. :smile:
Last edited by huxleypig on Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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grit1

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Post Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:50 pm

Re: Slimline Push Button Lock Box

I do need to re-check this...I did it a number of years ago while bored "babysitting" A/V at a hotel.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:43 am

Re: Slimline Push Button Lock Box

...gettin' interesting round here
:gosplit:
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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jgriner

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Post Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:22 am

Re: Slimline Push Button Lock Box

doesnt work on mine
:( my clear key doesnt wiggle on any number but one
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