First Manipulation

[Libertyclicks]

I just opened my LaGard 3330 practice lock for the first time on an unknown combo. It felt good but I was learning more than anything else so it only happened with lots of help. Lots of mistakes made, lots of readings followed based on hunches that didn't pan out. Hi Lo testing told me nothing and I got discouraged and didn't touch it for a couple days. But it's open now. Thanks to Oldfast for chronicles and encouragement, thanks to nhoj_yelbom for encouragement as well.
I DID get two hints from the combo changer:
1) I initially thought I had all three numbers after spinning all wheels. She told me 2 were right and 1 wasn't. I rechecked all and I must have been drunk when I measured wheel 3 (combo number 1). I choose to believe that I would have realized one was wrong and re checked everything after dialing this combo +1/-1 on all wheels and still it wouldn't have opened.
2) When I was brute forcing the only remaining number, she told me it was between 63 and 78 (to save me dialing 50 combos in). Again, I would have opened it about 30 minutes later without this hint, but I think she was tired and wanted to go to bed but wanted to see me open it.

I dialed : 71 - 36.5 - 50

Actual Combo: 70 - 35 - 50

So she gave me a nice easy one, Big deal! It's my first time after all.

LibertyClicks

[muddassarusa]

Good Job keep it up

[10ringo10]

cool.. love the dedication of alot of guys on here... just WOW buddy

[houdini1]

well done

[Oldfast]

wooooohOOOOOO.... Hot damn! VERY exciting!

...When I was brute forcing the only remaining number, she told me it was between 63 and 78 (to save me dialing 50 combos in). Again, I would have opened it about 30 minutes later without this hint, but I think she was tired and wanted to go to bed but wanted to see me open it.

LOL! I can relate to that! It's just SO HARD to stop when your that close!

...when I measured wheel 3 (combo number 1)...

You obviously knew exactly which wheel you were working on at the time, which is all that really matters....
but for the sake of terminology - w3 is closest to the drive cam and corresponds to the 3rd and final combination #.
w1 is furthest from the cam and (in this lock) closest to the dial. It corresponds with the 1st # of the combination.

Not nitpickin' here... lol... it's really just for the sake of conversation. If you're referring to one end of the wheel pack while
talking with me (or anyone for that matter)... and I'm thinking of the other end of the wpack... we'll BOTH be confused. lol

...So she gave me a nice easy one, Big deal! It's my first time after all...

Regardless of what #'s she chose... if they are unknown to you... they're never "easy ones". CONGRATS

As I've mentioned... the one LaGard I have has been giving me some troubles. So you've done better than I have with mine

[nozza36]

Well done , i'm soooo jealous mate , i want to try this but am too broke to buy locks , but the time will come when i can get stuck in to this method !

[GWiens2001]

Congratulations! It is so fun when you first get the lock open the first time. Manipulation is addictive! I just got another manipulation toy... a Sargent and Greenleaf 8088 padlock. Internally, the wheels and gates are identical to a safe lock, but smaller. It even takes a change key just like the S&G safe locks except, again, smaller.

Gordon

[Libertyclicks]

w3 is closest to the drive cam and corresponds to the 3rd and final combination #.
w1 is furthest from the cam and (in this lock) closest to the dial. It corresponds with the 1st # of the combination.

Oh that makes more sense and I prefer that terminology anyway.
Ok w1 = first number, w2 = 2nd number, w3 = 3rd number.
You will see errors referring to them in the wrong order on my paperwork for this manipulation and the next since I had that backwards. I though they were numbered in the order they pick up from the drive cam.

Ok now that that is sorted out, next question is.... When I graph my wheels I listed the graph as "All Wheels Right" because I was turning the whole pack (and dial) right so they were all at "20" to start (as an example) then I take my readings then move the whole pack RIGHT further to 22, 24, 26, 28 etc...
Is this all wheels right? or is it all wheels left?

Mechanically in my head I know what's going, but I want to share the same terminology with anyone else I get the pleasure of talking to about this.

Thanks! Exciting stuff!!!
A new combo has been set, and I've got a loose fix on the number 8 so far.
I was dreaming about this last night, I want to talk to all my friends about it but they wouldn't care or think I was weird. I want to read about it at work but I don't know how my co workers would react... It's on my brain!

[Libertyclicks]

Well done , i'm soooo jealous mate , i want to try this but am too broke to buy locks , but the time will come when i can get stuck in to this method !

It's a blast, it's not as expensive as I thought it was going to be to get into, but it will take a chunk for a practice lock. If I get the pleasure of visiting the fair motherland then I'll bring my lock and make an effort to link up with some KP members.
Thanks for your interest!
LC

[Libertyclicks]

Congratulations! It is so fun when you first get the lock open the first time. Manipulation is addictive! I just got another manipulation toy... a Sargent and Greenleaf 8088 padlock. Internally, the wheels and gates are identical to a safe lock, but smaller. It even takes a change key just like the S&G safe locks except, again, smaller.

Gordon

I keep seeing those 8088's on the forums here. I'd love one. Great for practicing on and S&G have nice stuff.
A little more subtle to learn on one of those rather than taking the mounted practice lock to the dentist office waiting room (guilty).
I'll try to post more if you guys are interested in hearing about it I'm interested in talking about it.
LC

[Oldfast]

Ok now that that is sorted out, next question is.... When I graph my wheels I listed the graph as "All Wheels Right" because I was turn the whole pack (and dial) right so they were all at "20" to start (as an example) then I take my readings then move the whole pack RIGHT further to 22, 24, 26, 28 etc...
Is this all wheels right? or is it all wheels left?

If you're at 20 and turning UP to 22, 24, 26, etc.... then you're turning LEFT.
If it helps, think in terms of direction, rather than the numbers on the dial.
If you're turning left (CCW)... then the top of the dial is going left.

...It's on my brain!...

Yep.... I know what ya mean. Sometimes I don't even realize someones talking to me. lol

[GWiens2001]

Congratulations! It is so fun when you first get the lock open the first time. Manipulation is addictive! I just got another manipulation toy... a Sargent and Greenleaf 8088 padlock. Internally, the wheels and gates are identical to a safe lock, but smaller. It even takes a change key just like the S&G safe locks except, again, smaller.

Gordon

I keep seeing those 8088's on the forums here. I'd love one. Great for practicing on and S&G have nice stuff.
A little more subtle to learn on one of those rather than taking the mounted practice lock to the dentist office waiting room (guilty).
I'll try to post more if you guys are interested in hearing about it I'm interested in talking about it.
LC

Post away, LC.

Just a word of warning on manipulating the 8088 in the dentist's office... Take the lock out of your pocket. It saves explanations.

Gordon

[mastersmith]

CONGRATS!!!! And I agree with Oldfast, if you don't know the numbers, easy doesn't enter the conversation. Great work! Mark

[Libertyclicks]

CONGRATS!!!! And I agree with Oldfast, if you don't know the numbers, easy doesn't enter the conversation. Great work! Mark

Thanks for your message Mark. I'm spinnin' on round two in between typing this. I still want to get some of my data posted online here. Didn't make much progress last night because there was too much of in these . (Just needed an excuse to use these smilies)
LC

[Squelchtone]

Libertyclicks,

You're an inspiration to us all. I have a practice stand S&G 6730 that a friend set a combo to, and I'm doing that this week, and I also have a safe door with another S&G 6730 that another friend set, and that's sitting on the floor here and I've been graphing that lock.

The one on the stand, my friend had set his birthday 11-20-79 which he ended up telling me after an hour of spinning the dial, I told him 20 was the last number, it turns out it was the middle number, but I thought the 3rd number on a 6730 always indicated first. I had taken this for granted, but now I'll be much more careful in doing the x-y-y, y-x-y, y-y-x test to see which wheel is indicating when I do the initial All Wheels Left.

I will say that I only read the Left contact point (to save time) 12.8 in my case, I consider 4.8 the Right contact because I can feel it when turning the wheel right (please correct me if I have this backwards)

Safe lock manipulation is an exciting new thing for me in the arena of locksport and locksmithing. I have spent the last 7 years picking pin tumbler locks, and I'm very much humbled by mechanical safe locks and the light touch it takes to feel any difference in one number to the next.

I hope to post photos of my first successful manipulation in the near future, thank you for motivating all of us who are just starting out,
Squelchtone