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Hall's Safe & Lock Co. 1893 or older...

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Squelchtone

Active Member

Posts: 283

Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:16 pm

Location: Springfield MA USA

Post Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:07 pm

Re: Hall's Safe & Lock Co. 1893 or older...

Cooper:

I looked your safe up in a book at it has 9 false gates on the driver wheel. Your lock mechanism is called a Hall's Straight Tailpiece. With a 130 number dial your drop in is at 97.5 With the dial at 0 under the opening index, 97.5 should be at 9 O'Clock exactly.

While applying turning pressure on your door handle, turn it counterclockwise to open. The dial will not stop when correct combo is entered, all gates must be aligned and then the handle turned which moves the tailpiece (horizontal bar into the aligned gates)

Testing the dial by turning handle CCW, while dialing will get you stuck in the 9 false gates and the one true gate.

I'm running out before the blizzard hits, when I come back I'll post some photos of the inside of your safe.

Squelchtone
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Cooper

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Posts: 25

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:39 pm

Location: United States

Post Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:04 am

Re: Hall's Safe & Lock Co. 1893 or older...

Wow! Great information guys. Particularly I want to thank Oldfast and Squelchtone. I knew that first wheel had false gates! I feel a little more confidant now knowing that I had fairly accurately deduced what I was dealing with. I believe the 0/130 on the dial offers the most play in the dial. After reading all the comments I believe I'll map the 9 false gates and their depths first and then begin a new graph. 24 and 91 might be actual gates but it won't hurt to go through it all and confirm or deny that.

So my plan will be to start an AWL graph again but this time as I advance the numbers I'll kick the wheel back right and into the false gate with the lowest depth. So for instance I'll go AWL-2.5 R 130, AWL 5 R 130,....etc. So that will be my plan for tomorrow. I'll let you guys know what I learn!

Oh and I hope you avoided the storm Squelchtone!

Cheers,
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Squelchtone

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Posts: 283

Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:16 pm

Location: Springfield MA USA

Post Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:32 am

Re: Hall's Safe & Lock Co. 1893 or older...

I colorized a diagram of what your lock looks like if you had xray vision and could see through the door. Also included is an B&W photo of what it looks like if you had the door open and the curbs (wheel pack) removed.

Image
The blue is boltwork, the yellow is a view of the driver wheel with false gates, and the teal is a regular combination wheel.

Image

Hope that helps, can't wait to see it open!

Squelchtone
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Cooper

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Post Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:44 am

Re: Hall's Safe & Lock Co. 1893 or older...

Hey guys just wanted to touch base and let you know I haven't forgotten...I did go last week. I wasn't successful. It has been a crazy week at work But I'll try to update my progress when I get a chance. I may actually get another shot at the safe before I update again...we'll see?
Take it easy until then!
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:10 am

Re: Hall's Safe & Lock Co. 1893 or older...

Great! Keep at it Cooper. Look forward to any updates.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Squelchtone

Active Member

Posts: 283

Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:16 pm

Location: Springfield MA USA

Post Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:56 pm

Re: Hall's Safe & Lock Co. 1893 or older...

Cooper! How goes it? =) We're craving an update on any progress you've made.

Pic of inside of the safe most welcome ;-)
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4178

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:15 am

Re: Hall's Safe & Lock Co. 1893 or older...

INDEED! :whip: lol
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Arborigine

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Posts: 11

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:25 am

Location: Calaveras County, CA

Post Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:48 am

Re: Hall's Safe & Lock Co. 1893 or older...

Hi. I just brought home a locked Hall's, and found Squelch's post shows exactly what I felt was on the driver. My dial only has 100 digits, does your book show what is the real gate? Serial # 60198. My safe was owned by the Buena Vista Store near Ione, California and probably held a lot of California gold over the years. It is probably empty when they sold it to the ranch next door, and the grandson of deceased owner has no combo. It's mine now, and i really don't want to drill it, although I would be interested to know where that point is if your book shows it. I have no books on the subject , just what i read on the internet. When graphing, to the numbers represent handle deflection? Doesnt a false gate mess with that? I don't mean to be rude and hijack this thread, anyfurther questions will be on a new one. Amyone think vibration will help? I have a paint shaker i could leave on top for a while. Thanks.

Image
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oldlock

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Post Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:04 am

Re: Hall's Safe & Lock Co. 1893 or older...

The false gates help, not hinder the process at all.
Bramah Australasia
http://www.bramah.com.au

The above link has been approved by the site admin.
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Arborigine

Newbie

Posts: 11

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:25 am

Location: Calaveras County, CA

Post Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:05 am

Re: Hall's Safe & Lock Co. 1893 or older...

From the diagram I would expect the vibrator to only be effective if the safe was on it's right side, if at all. Probably not at all.
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Fabricator-X

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Posts: 24

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:14 am

Location: Colorado

Post Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:35 pm

Re: Hall's Safe & Lock Co. 1893 or older...

Squelchtone wrote:Cooper:

I looked your safe up in a book at it has 9 false gates on the driver wheel. Your lock mechanism is called a Hall's Straight Tailpiece. With a 130 number dial your drop in is at 97.5 With the dial at 0 under the opening index, 97.5 should be at 9 O'Clock exactly.

While applying turning pressure on your door handle, turn it counterclockwise to open. The dial will not stop when correct combo is entered, all gates must be aligned and then the handle turned which moves the tailpiece (horizontal bar into the aligned gates)

Testing the dial by turning handle CCW, while dialing will get you stuck in the 9 false gates and the one true gate.

I'm running out before the blizzard hits, when I come back I'll post some photos of the inside of your safe.

Squelchtone


This thread is the one that led me to this forum and gave me some insight into what I think is an identical locks to the one Cooper is/was working on here. However, the first statement in this post by Squelchtone has me puzzled. I can understand about the configuration of the lock inside as described here, but I can't figure out how that is of any help in manipulating the lock.
What is the significance of this description in that process? How does it help to know that when the dial is on 130 the gaps are going to be at 9 o'clock? Seems to me that when the gaps are lined up it really doesn't matter where on the clock they are. Then, if there are false gaps on the cam or drive wheel does this mean the the true gap will always be at 130 under the hash mark but actually under the 92.5 at 9 o'clock? I would think that when dealing with false gaps the true gap can be expected to be anywhere around the dial.

Then I wonder if Cooper was in fact dealing with a four wheel pack rather then the three he thought he had found. Does anyone know any more about Cooper's project after he stopped posting in this thread. Is there another thread about how this came out? Thanks for your help. I may be needing more about this kind of lock soon to try to open a 1890 Hall's safe likely with the same lock.
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Bandi

Newbie

Posts: 1

Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:05 pm

Location: West Virginia

Post Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:39 pm

Re: Hall's Safe & Lock Co. 1893 or older...

I recently received this safe with no dial. I found a penny in in the wheel pack. using a strip from a windshield wiper, and a inspection camera from the car parts store, I was able to manipulate the the wheel pack to get the gates lined up. I was told the dial was in side. It wasn't. customer didn't want to pay for services rendered. I now own the safe. I hope these photos will be of some help for some one else..
Im trying to locate a replacement dial when I came across this thread.
For some reason, Im not able to upload the photos so I created a public album on One Drive. Heres the link:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AtHG_DRdc5m5kH2NasRQQpW_jAl3
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bitbuster

Active Member

Posts: 717

Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:03 pm

Location: NW Wis

Post Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:48 pm

Re: Hall's Safe & Lock Co. 1893 or older...

Bandi wrote:I recently received this safe with no dial. I found a penny in in the wheel pack. using a strip from a windshield wiper, and a inspection camera from the car parts store, I was able to manipulate the the wheel pack to get the gates lined up. I was told the dial was in side. It wasn't. customer didn't want to pay for services rendered. I now own the safe. I hope these photos will be of some help for some one else..
Im trying to locate a replacement dial when I came across this thread.
For some reason, Im not able to upload the photos so I created a public album on One Drive. Heres the link:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AtHG_DRdc5m5kH2NasRQQpW_jAl3

Nice job, Bandi. Your 1st post since joining in '10?
"I dream of a world where, chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned."......Ralph Waldo Emerson
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MartinHewitt

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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:19 pm

Location: Germany

Post Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:28 pm

Re: Hall's Safe & Lock Co. 1893 or older...

A really nice safe! It cross my fingers that you will get the proper dial for this beauty!
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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