xeo wrote:....What is the next step up in terms of advanced dials? What are the "high security" combination locks are that very difficult (but possible)?
Do you have plans to attempt those? How far along are you in terms of difficulty?....
My girlfriend always asks "why can't you just answer people with just a couple senctences
?". lol. So here's the "short version":
Difficulty level- I'd say I'm more or less at the beginning. And yes, there's certainly a wide field to play as I work up the ladder.
Now, the long version....haha!...
In terms of progression (and I may be talkin' beyond my knowledge here
)... but mechanical locks are rated and categorized
into 'Groups' based on manipulation resistance (along with MANY other tests & attacks... which are of no interest to me).Group 2
locks (which is where I'm at
) provide "moderate" resistance to manipulation. There are no additional security features
on the wheels, drive cam, or lever. You could say this is your 'standard' lock & most commonly seen in use throughout the world.
To quite a degree, these are used on some rather high-end safes. Matt Blaze expresses surprise & concern over this in his paper.
I'm realizing there is much to be had yet in the 'group 2 realm'! I've worked mainly with S&G's so far. But for example, I've two
locks that are still posing problems for me - a LaGard and a Diebold. The wheels are standard yes, but they seem to be ovular,
creating a shadowing affect. They mask other gates from being read & require parking certain wheels in order to read others.
Every make and model poses different problems to work around. In fact, a single lock can react much differently by putting a
new combo in it. One combo will allow me to clearly catch all the gates. A different combo in the same lock is now giving off
that shadowing affect, making me really work to find each gate. I have about a half dozen dials now. I'm constantly working
new combos in each of them. I hate to admit it, but I've never been all too bright lol. Most of what I accomplish is simply due
to insane diligence... not intelligence! Between these locks I probably have 50+ openings. It use to take me a couple of days
and several sessions to open one. I can now sometimes run through most, if not all of them in an evening. When all this
becomes as natural as breathing, and very little thought is involved... I'll set my sights on the next group....Group 2M
locks are designed to resist expert manipulation for 2+ hrs. Features include false gates on the wheels
and an eccentric roller in the lever nose (appears to be a small roller disc that's seating in the nose
). I'd imagine
this would complicate matters, making it difficult to achieve consistant readings. Or take for example the Mosler
302.... its' wheels appear to be circular, but are in fact comprised of 32 sides. The graph for such a wheel would
probably look similar to the Appalachian mountains. lol
At the top of the food chain is the Group 1
locks. Withstanding 20+ hrs of expert manipulation. From what I've seen,
most of the modifications seem to be geared toward the drive cam itself in an attempt to prohibit the manipulator
from being able to even take readings from its' gate in the first place. The "holy grail" of these is S&G's 8400 series.
Its' drive cam reminds me of something straight from an alien movie HA! It consists of two elements and can only
be activated when the dial's at zero. The two pieces expand in either direction like butterfly wings. Beautiful.
One side covers the drive cam gate, while the other side locks the dial in place so that it cannot be turned.
I have one of these... but haven't grown the balls to even mount it yet. lol
Then there are the direct entry type
locks. Far less secure than a group 2 and really in a
different category all together. Manipulating these mechanisms are a whole different
ball game requiring a different technique. I have yet to step foot on this playing field.Xeo, it's good to cya over here. I figured you'd been keepin' tabs on my progress but assumed it's just not something that intrigues you. That's cool. If you've been following this thread you've probably noticed the multitued of questions I've posed... and nearly all of them have gone unanswered. That's ok and I don't take offense to that at all. I humbly say I feel a bit like a pioneer...lol... I KNOW I'm not the ONLY one by ANY means... but I sometimes feel like that.
I wanna make very clear that my main drive here is fueled by a true passion. But I have to admit, there's a secondary, underlying motive that keeps me pressing on with (dare I say it) a sort of vengeance. It's a touchy subject. Everyone has an opinion on it. And I thoroughly respect that. I understand the years of secrecy surrounding manipulation and even agree with it to some extent. It shouldn't bother me, it really shouldn't... but it does. People hoarding this shit as if it were some sort of holy fuckin' grail. As if they get to decide if I am "woooorthy" of receiving it....lol.... it just erks me a bit. In all fairness, the few people around here that have answers for me, I think are more than willing to share it. But I think it comes down to time they don't have. I find it takes ALOT of time to put this kinda shit into words that make any sense. Anyway, hopefully I'm not coming across cocky or hateful... it's just the way I feel sometimes. Just my (little ol' me) opinion. So it's a VERY slow learning curve... but the locks & liturature are out there for everyone & anyone now days... and I think the "dark ages" may be coming to an end. lol