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Oldfast: Safe Chronicles

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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4168

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Tue May 29, 2018 3:05 am

Re: Oldfast: Safe Chronicles

castagnojohn wrote:I have really enjoyed "safe chronicles" and have learned a lot by following your posts. It is great to see your progress and the fact that you don't have a stick up your butt about sharing information. I have numerous books on this subject and lock mounts too. Hoping to get going on manipulation very soon. Thanks for the info and inspiration. John

Thank you sir! Manipulation is a wonderful thing & a huge part of my life today.
It's great to hear you're enjoying it... and hopefully for years to come!

madsamurai wrote:Don't know how I missed this last one, but great post as always, Oldfast. Timely, too, as I'm about to finally mount a couple of Diebolds to play with and your tips will almost certainly give me a head-start.
Oldfast wrote:I'm identifying this one as a very early version in the 900 Series (produced from 1954-1970). But corrections are welcomed!

You may be right, I've not seen the 900 series locks yet and wouldn't know the difference, but I have a 177-23 that looks absolutely identical (except that it's left-mounted), including the lack of relocker and ball-bearing. Mine doesn't have any serial numbers or other information besides the model, so I have no idea about production dates, etc.

Nice! Hope it helps... and hope to hear about your spinnin with 'em. Always good to see ya my friend :D


On a side note: Has fuck-it-bucket changed their 3rd party sharing policy again?! LOOK!! AAAAALL my photos have been restored :spinning: Hundreds and hundreds of 'em. I'm even goin' back to some of the oldies, lol. The AMERICAN LOCK . The SLAYMAKER article. Or how about the J.B. Miller, remember THIS short lived fetish? lol. Anyway, I never paid the $400+ they were demanding, so I dunno what the hells goin' on... but I'm thinking it won't last for long and all the photos will be taken down again.

Anyone know what's going on with it?
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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L4R3L2

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Posts: 14

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:48 am

Post Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:26 am

Re: Oldfast: Safe Chronicles

Hi Mike,

I have a couple quick questions which come to mind right away, before I figure out what my other questions were, lol.

I've seen your videos showing the hi/low test approaching from one direction, and a couple others. Good grief, you're fast! I had to really concentrate on the rotation direction and end points to figure out what you were showing, and even then it was sometimes hard to tell which way it was spinning it was going so fast! Which brings me to my first question. I've read to dial slowly and smoothly.....that if the numbers are blurred, it's too fast, which I think is a bit of an exaggeration. I understand the principle that the tiny tabs on the brass fly could become peened of snap off, a snap off resulting in a lockout. In all these years of spinning, have you ever had a fly break? Have you ever noticed any peening on the flys upon disassembly?

The other question is one I've had from the very beginning. You, and several others, have recommended a publication entitled The National Locksmith Guide To Manipulation. I don't seem to be able to find that title at any of the usual sources. I'd like to add that one to my library. Where are you guys finding them?

Thank you in advance. I'll be back with more questions as I recall them.
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MHM

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Familiar Face

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Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:33 pm

Location: Napier, New Zealand

Post Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:32 pm

Re: Oldfast: Safe Chronicles

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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4168

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:08 am

Re: Oldfast: Safe Chronicles

Although they're authentic, let's face it.... those vids are me going balls to the walls trying to appease the camera and basically show off, lol. In fact, if you watch some of them very closely you'll notice some very sloppy dialing that could've easily cost me an opening. They're entertaining mostly, but as you've done, they can be somewhat educational if you focus on 'em long enough.

My own mounted locks are one thing, but you'll rarely see me spinning quite that crazily on a lock that's in use. It's best to err on the side of caution with someone else's safe. I'd rather have an open safe that takes a bit longer than to have something go bad. It's always difficult to know what kinda condition a lock is in. And I'd hate to have to inform them of what I did... and that their only option now is to hire someone and pay to have it drilled.

That being said, I'll still spin rather fast on some locks. Once you get a little more acclimated as to where the wheels are at all times and when they'll make contact with each other... you can still spin quick... simply slow down just a millisecond before contact. Also, spinning fast doesn't necessarily equate to quick openings! Some folks spin rather slow and yet consistently have fast openings - faster than me for sure.

L4R3L2 wrote:. . . . I've read to dial slowly and smoothly.....that if the numbers are blurred, it's too fast, which I think is a bit of an exaggeration. . . .

And I agree, it is exaggerated. This is usually for the benefit of the owners/users of the safe though, who tend to 'whirl' the dial almost like they think it's gonna continue spinning like a Russian roulette wheel (not joking). I too will overly stress the importance of slow dialing as I demonstrate how to work their newly found numbers. Yet, directly following my clear advice, on their very first attempt... there they go! So I guess it's sorta like the concept of putting up a 5mph speed limit sign in hopes that people will at least keep it under 10.

Honestly, I think you could dial the combo each and every time at a fairly moderate, even a semi-fast pace without necessarily accelerating what would otherwise be a normal rate-of-wear for a mechanical lock. Really, from what I've seen, most locks are much tougher than we give 'em credit for. But you'll never catch me saying that to a customer! lol

It seems to me though there's a major distinction between an owner repeatedly dialing open their safe for years versus our one-time manipulation session with it. I half wonder if many of us (including myself) have taken these cautionary dialing instructions and applied em a little too much(?) to manipulation. Yes, an enormous amount of force can be generated between these small parts - we do know that. But we've also seen plenty of 50-80 year old locks that have been thoroughly abused and rarely if ever serviced... still working. Just sayin'.


L4R3L2 wrote:. . . . In all these years of spinning, have you ever had a fly break?
Have you ever noticed any peening on the flys upon disassembly? . . . .

No. Of the safes I've opened I've never really seen much wear or deformation on the flys. Nor have I ever had anything break during a manipulation. I have however seen some pretty worn and distorted drive pins on the cams of some of the older safes. Would be interesting to hear from some older long-time safe techs as to what they've seen though.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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L4R3L2

Newbie

Posts: 14

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:48 am

Post Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:18 am

Re: Oldfast: Safe Chronicles

Oldfast wrote:That being said, I'll still spin rather fast on some locks. Once you get a little more acclimated as to where the wheels are at all times and when they'll make contact with each other... you can still spin quick... simply slow down just a millisecond before contact.


Thank you for the reply. This is pretty much what I was thinking. It would be the initial slam that would be most likely to cause damage, not the ultimate speed of the spin, assuming nothing causes a wheel to seize during mid-spin.



Thank you, thank you! I'll give it a read. I have a couple friction fenced locks that this touches on, so that right there is a big plus. Are these available in hard copy? I prefer referring to books than to a screen. I know I can print it out, but a bound book is always nice. I know, I'm 'old school'.
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