Tear Gas in Safes Vaults.. Urban Legend or ???

[Don]

Tear Gas in Safes Vaults.. Urban Legend or ???

During a recent discussion the subject of safes / vaults being bobby trapped with tear gas has come up.
The research I did, including search of the SAVTA news group failed to produce 1 picture/ photo of this type of device in use.
Additional research (not all mine) has produced a few magazine or newspaper articles, and a few pictures of devices that COULD be used. One article indicated a tear gas device had been triggered by mistake in a bank vault. Not one picture of a device attached to a safe/ vault.

There is some information that indicates tear gas may have been an option on some safes/ vaults until apx 1950. That was 60 + years ago.

One of the newspaper articles quoted an acquaintance of mine ( 30 year safeman) saying he had seen these types of devices in use. A recent phone call to him indicted the author's use of artistic license was a major factor to consider.




So my question is:
Outside of Hollywood has ANYBODY seen a device attached to a safe// vault that contains tear gas or other irritant designed to thwart unauthorized entry?
If so where are the pictures? Why not ? A device like that would certainly warrant documentation.
What happened to the device? How was it disposed of ?

Please keep your answers to FACT.. your brother-in-law's dog groomer's best friend's cousin is not a source. ( unless he/ she would like to chime in)

Until I see some VERIFIBLE proof I say URBAN LEDGEND

Thank you

Don

[pin_pusher]

within several interviews of safe technicians i've heard this mentioned as well, but they only allude to the fact that there may be booby traps. also within LSS+ there is mention of such a device as well, and not only within LSS+, but other literature referencing safe operations and opening procedures. and the recent uncovering of a new england compound's safe, where three recovered stolen paintings were found, had the federal agents wearing tyvek suits and gas masks ready for an assault during the opening procedure. but it think it has been a contention within manufacturers and safe owners about the ethics of harming an unsuspecting (unsuspecting in the way that it isn't labeled) safe tech or safe cracker and criminal. i too would like to see if there are any concrete situations where these devices were encountered. but, because of the information surrounding the concept, i'm waning more toward fact than legend.

[mdc5150]

Although it is not common it is fact that tear gas is sometimes used in safes. I'm not sure how it is deployed but I think it is only under certain circumstances where the combination is not used to open the safe.

Ok, so I just did a little research on it and it was common 50-60 years ago but is now illegal. I'm not sure if that is by federal law or only certain states laws.

[magician59]

I've worked on a handful of safes that had the vials in them. To my knowledge, it was never an option from the manufacturers; But was an aftermarket sort of thing. The principle was that if you attached the vials behind the lock body, a punching attack on the spindle would break the glass vials and release tear gas into the room.

Another application was to install the unit (the most common one I saw was an assembly of three vials) in front of the lock to thwart drilling atacks--much like the glass plate relocker anchors used today.

Normally, if tear gas is encountered in the field today, it is gingerly circumvented, or professionally disposed.

[LocksmithArmy]

I strongly advise EVERYONE visit the Lockmasters Security Institute museum at their school.. you can see several of the glass canasters, still filled with tear gass, that were put into safes way back when they actually did that...

so not urban legend...

[gibson]

in 'the reed manual of safes', put out years ago by locksmith ledger (no date), on pages 16 and 17, they give a warning about tear gas. quote "...chance of tear gas being installed in bottles on the inside of the door such that if you drive out the lock or bolt bars, the bottle will be broken...". there was no mention of a device per se, just the bottle(s) put in a sensitive spot. alas, nowadays we have to be considerate of the rights of yeggs!

[pin_pusher]

alas, nowadays we have to be considerate of the rights of yeggs!

that is, if there still is a yegg in the twentyfirst century. i'd figure that to be more of a legend these days, common burglary and robbery, i doubt, involves the use of safe manipulation or drilling.

[gibson]

sadly, the days of a jimmy valentine are long gone. with locks like the kaba mas x-0 series, the use of 'soup', peeling, and punching are no longer adequate, and have been replaced by bribery, blackmail, and human engineering. alexander mundy where are you?

[LocksmithArmy]

Before the GSA came along the navy had these safes called "ol' Inky or Stinky" because they were ligned with a bladder that was filled with either a CS gas or an Ink that sprayed all over the attacker. you could not tell which it was filled with...

I have seen one of these safes, seen the bladder... still full... still do not know which one it was filled with...

[Riyame]

As for the second part of Dons requesr, can anybody provide pictures of such devices actually INSTALLED on/in a safe? We found a few pics of a unit that was possibly removed from a safe but nothing in use.

[LocksmithArmy]

Im going back to LSI next week.. ill try and get some pictures of stuffs... idk what all they have but ill ask

[KokomoLock]

I was drilling a safe in the shop once and saw a liquid coming out the bottom of the door !!! A few seconds later it hit me, TEAR GAS, not like the gas chamber during basic training but still enough to run me out and I had to close the shop for a couple days to let it air out!!! I have had several safes with tear gas but this was the first and hopefully last I break!!!! Here is a link to what they normally look like http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/A-safecracker-s-nightmare-926316.php and another http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5308a4.htm#fig look at picture 10, very small but you can clearly see the "box" containing the tear gas tube mounted to the inside of the outer door http://www.anthony-escapes.com/safes.htm sorry, one more http://en.allexperts.com/q/Antique-Safes-3774/2012/6/hall-safe-lock-co-8.htm

[jack ezzell]

around 40 year ago i was given two safes they stand about five foot tall in both were two glass tubes of tear gas i put them over a header in the shop to day they are still there if any one is passing bay i would glad to let them have them just stop by goldsboro N C you are welcome to them

[selim]

i have heard of those too.

But with mustard gass, is there a differnce between the two ??

[Riyame]

i have heard of those too.

But with mustard gass, is there a differnce between the two ??

Mustard (chlorine) gas is really nasty stuff, even getting it on your skin is bad. It is what they used in WW 1 for chemical warfare. Heavier than air so it pools in trenches and foxholes.