So this will be fun.

[Mrfoto]

IMG_1108.JPG

I need some help/advice on this one. A friend has asked me to open this as the combination died with grandpa many years ago. I have read about old Mosler being 4 numbers. But this doesn't seem like it is. Another strange, at least to me, I can HEAR the right contact point better than feel it. I think there is a left contact point but the dial is trash. It is loose enough to rub on the bottom and it rubs worse when you push in. So this is gonna be all about pulling it out to get readings.

If anyone can help with what lock it is, so I can research what it looks like inside, dialing pattern and all this and that I would be most grateful.

[MartinHewitt]

Hi Mrfoto, That looks like fun indeed.

The star opening index is usually a sign for a Sargent & Greenleaf lock. It is unusual, that a Mosler has an S&G lock, but in love and safes everything is allowed. Possibly they bought a safe and just branded it. If it is a lock from S&G, then it will work quite similar to the modern mechanical combination locks. Their drive cams are not symmetric. The gate rises up on the right side much slower than on the left side, which means the bump is not as easy to feel. This lock could have a roller bolt where some people have made the experience that the CP points are more consistent, when the handle is turned towards opening direction to hold the bolt in a fixed position. If you found only 3 wheels, then go with 3.

[Cheesehead]

I need some help/advice on this one. A friend has asked me to open this as the combination died with grandpa many years ago. I have read about old Mosler being 4 numbers. But this doesn't seem like it is. Another strange, at least to me, I can HEAR the right contact point better than feel it. I think there is a left contact point but the dial is trash. It is loose enough to rub on the bottom and it rubs worse when you push in. So this is gonna be all about pulling it out to get readings.

If anyone can help with what lock it is, so I can research what it looks like inside, dialing pattern and all this and that I would be most grateful.

Couple questions: where are the contact points? Is there any gear noise? Mosler used a fair amount of Yale "friction fence" locks, do contact points appear only in one direction?

I would have guessed from the star on the dial ring that it was a Sargent and Greenleaf lock, but it is also possible that the safe was drilled at one point and the dial ring replaced with what was on hand. They do match well though.

[bitbuster]

In my reference materials from The National Safeman's Organization McOmie Files, that same lock is pictured, with same patent date and star opening index.
Also, Yale made the Mosler 10 lock so it may be feasible that S&G may have made a lock for Mosler but I haven't any info of that.

[Mrfoto]

Thank everyone for the responses. I will know more and be able to answer the questions Cheesehead asked soon. I believe there are 2 contact points but the left is very faint. There is no gear noise but spinning the dial sounds akin to running loose change in the dryer. Lol picking up wheels sounds like a automobile accident. It’s all functional but dang does it make noise. I will find and report the actual contact points over the weekend when I start to tackle this project.

[Mrfoto]

Ok so the contact points seem to be 14 and 21. I also believe it’s a 4 wheel lock. At this point I could use some help wrapping my head around non movable flies and how that plays out. I have read just enough to be dangerous on that that subject.

TIA for any help.

[MartinHewitt]

The purpose of a movable fly is to make all combinations possible. A fixed pin creates a dead number range. I do have an old S&G with fixed pins. When I turn all wheels e.g. around left to 30 (it's only a 50 number dial with gap) and then turn the dial around right I can feel the pickup of W3 (it's a 3-wheel lock) at 35, at turn more the pickup of W2 at 40 and again a turn more W1 at 45. This means a combination of L30-R37-Lx would not be possible. For a lock with movable flies this would be no issue.

[Mrfoto]

I stand corrected this is only a 3 wheel. Today was just getting a feel. Tomorrow we graph both directions and see what turns up.

[DiVaCore]

That looks like so much fun! How did this go?