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New Safecracker, Old Safe
Posted:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:35 pmby Wolfdog
Hello, I am new to this site and I created an account because I recently stumbled across an old safe that I wanted to try and open myself but since learned that I need professional help. Since I don't have any specialized equipment, I figured the best way to approach this would be to use the stethoscope method of hearing the clicks, even if it is the slowest method to use just because I have the time. The problem is that I don't know what the click specifically sounds like and when I attempt it I'm not sure if I'm hearing it or it's just the dial against metal. Any advice for what I should be listening for and how I should approach the safe? I don't know what the model is so here's a picture of the safe in question in case there's something weird about it that makes it harder to open than 'normal' safes.
Thank you for looking at this.
Re: New Safecracker, Old Safe
Posted:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:39 pmby GWiens2001
There is no click that tells you the combination is correct. That is the fiction of movies. What you would be doing is listening for when the fence is contacting the drive cam on either side of the drop zone. Then you are noting exactly what the numbers are at the contact points. For more info, find Oldfast's threads.
Gordon
Re: New Safecracker, Old Safe
Posted:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:38 amby MartinHewitt
A Victor safe?
Re: New Safecracker, Old Safe
Posted:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:57 amby 00247
Enlarging the photo of the dial shows the following.
T. H. S. CO. (The Halls Safe Co)
P.O. Box 846
Cincinnati, O. U.S.A.
This is the first time I have seen the name of the company abbreviated on the dial.
antique-halls-safe-company-catalog_1_c102e2c960e9bc38c3ccba79da92704d.jpg
Re: New Safecracker, Old Safe
Posted:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:59 amby Wolfdog
GWiens2001 wrote:There is no click that tells you the combination is correct. That is the fiction of movies. What you would be doing is listening for when the fence is contacting the drive cam on either side of the drop zone. Then you are noting exactly what the numbers are at the contact points. For more info, find Oldfast's threads.
Yea that's the method that I've read online in a couple places, you take those points and you put them in two separate line graphs to compare but I'm having trouble finding those points consistently. I'll try looking for Oldfast's threads but if you could provide a starting link to them that would be great.
00247 wrote:Enlarging the photo of the dial shows the following.
T. H. S. CO. (The Halls Safe Co)
P.O. Box 846
Cincinnati, O. U.S.A.
This is the first time I have seen the name of the company abbreviated on the dial.
Thanks for this, looking online I got three results for what I think are the same safes (selling for a buttload of money but that's beside the point). They all say they are a Hall's Safe 1890 Double Door and that's about as much as I can find on it.
https://www.ebay.com/i/124057806067?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=124057806067&targetid=915708758100&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9027463&poi=&campaignid=9343999098&mkgroupid=94993858779&rlsatarget=aud-622027676548:pla-915708758100&abcId=1139336&merchantid=6296724&gclid=CjwKCAjw57b3BRBlEiwA1Imytv4WEqApZ-x4dN_o-Zf3BHYLw6zpFILasw-QzIxlUzi1wmFFdagdQxoCwYIQAvD_BwEhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/Very-Rare-Fantastic-restored-preserved-Halls-safe-c-1890-Mosler-Double-Door/124168244036?hash=item1ce9010b44:g:-o4AAOSwIYdepyPwhttps://sw-ke.facebook.com/ChrisSafeRestoration/posts/2438403226474215
Re: New Safecracker, Old Safe
Posted:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:33 amby MartinHewitt
Wow! I couldn't find anything with this PO box and the top line did not make much sense to me.
A Hall's safe has probably a direct entry fence/straight tail-piece lock.
Re: New Safecracker, Old Safe
Posted:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:31 pmby L4R3L2
Wolfdog wrote: (selling for a buttload of money but that's beside the point).
Those are not selling prices.
Re: New Safecracker, Old Safe
Posted:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:38 pmby madsamurai
lol, that second one is overpriced by around $13,000... I mean, don't get me wrong, it looks to be in really clean condition and has an especially fancy paint job, but jeez...
Re: New Safecracker, Old Safe
Posted:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:38 pmby MartinHewitt
Regarding manipulation ...
If this is a Hall's safe with a direct entry fence lock, then the drive cam has 9 false gates and 1 true. When you turn the handle to open and turn the dial you can find these 10 gates where the dial does a full stop. This lock should have another three wheels for the combination.
On Amazon is a yellow book about manipulating a Sentry safe called "Safecracking 101". And The National Locksmith Guide to Manipulation contains 4 pages about direct entry locks.
Re: New Safecracker, Old Safe
Posted:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:11 amby Wolfdog
MartinHewitt wrote:Regarding manipulation ...
If this is a Hall's safe with a direct entry fence lock, then the drive cam has 9 false gates and 1 true. When you turn the handle to open and turn the dial you can find these 10 gates where the dial does a full stop. This lock should have another three wheels for the combination.
Would there be false gates on a safe this old? If so it would explain why I can't hit consistently. Is there a way to tell which gate is false when the dial stops? Or is it just trial and error until I happen upon the real one?
Re: New Safecracker, Old Safe
Posted:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:45 pmby MartinHewitt
If it is the lock, which I believe it is, then it has false gates on the drive cam. I believe it hasn't on the code wheels. How to handle these depends on the lock. Trial and error is not really necessary, but there are cases where trial and error is the fastest way. I suggest you read about manipulation, any manipulation, if you can't find one explaining the manipulation of a direct entry lock. The language of the lock might be different, but the principles are the same. A short paper is this one:
https://www.mattblaze.org/papers/safelocks.pdf . There is also "Safecracking for everyone". A video showing a direct entry fence lock is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpTaf1JR4oc .
Re: New Safecracker, Old Safe
Posted:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:18 pmby Squelchtone
MartinHewitt wrote:Wow! I couldn't find anything with this PO box and the top line did not make much sense to me.
A Hall's safe has probably a direct entry fence/straight tail-piece lock.
I found this ad from 1925 before I found this post:
Thanks for the info everyone,
Squelchtone