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Safe lock Noob.

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SerratedRabbit

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Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 12:44 am

Location: Canada

Post Wed May 06, 2020 3:26 pm

Safe lock Noob.

Hi,

So this is my first post (not including the intro post) and I am hoping I won't stumble over any rules.

I'm about to pull the trigger on a SG3760 and LG3330 and while I think I've got answers to most of the questions I know to ask. There are a couple that still aren't clear to me. I forgot to mention in my intro that I am cheap. very cheap. when it comes to buying myself stuff.

So here are my questions:

1) Are there any ridiculous duties for safe locks when importing to Canada from the US? I also enjoy cigars but it is cheaper to travel to cuba to buy them, then it is to import them.

2) I have included two practice mounts for now. But I do plan to make some more permanent stands 'a la OldFast' as my collection grows. To avoid needing to buy new dials when I do this, I would like to install them without their lock covers on so that I can leave the spindle uncut. Also that would allow me to make sure I am doing what I think I am doing when trying to park wheels in specific spots. (I'm assuming it is not that hard to disable the lock cover relocker mechanism while doing this)

3) Going back to being cheap. Please correct me if I am wrong, but while 4 wheel locks increases the base number of available combos, it doesn't seem to me the concepts of manipulation really change (no doubt it takes some practice to remember you have 4 wheels and how to place them) But will a 4 wheel really teach me anything else?

of course if there are any questions I haven't yet figured out to ask, please do not hesitate to educate me!

Thanks!
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MartinHewitt

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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:19 pm

Location: Germany

Post Wed May 06, 2020 4:10 pm

Re: Safe lock Noob.

Your question 2 has no question.

A 4-wheel lock will teach you patience.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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madsamurai

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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:13 am

Location: Germantown, Ohio

Post Wed May 06, 2020 4:54 pm

Re: Safe lock Noob.

Sounds like you're on the right track... I'm assuming you meant S&G 6730 (rather than 3760). That and the LG3330 are pretty common first choices for starting out. You can save a little money and go with the S&G 6741, which is essentially an easier version of the 6730, and can be found on ebay quite often for closer to $40-50 US, where the 6730 will run around $100-130 US. TimeMasters has a sale on the 6730 for $62 right now, but you have to convince them you're a locksmith to be able to order from their website.

1) sorry, I can't answer about duties to Canada, as I live in the US.

2) yes, you can mount them with the back cover off and leave your spindle long. You won't be able to take off the relocker in the S&G without some damage, but it's easy to push it once you've got it solved and the fence falls in the gates... it'll just lock up instead of pulling the bolt, at which point you just push the lever and it'll release. The LG3330 uses a spring relocker which is pretty easy to remove and can be reinstalled later if you want, but doesn't really affect manipulation so you don't need to put it back unless you're going to use it on a safe.

3) four-wheel locks are, as you said, pretty much the same procedure just with a lot more turning. You'll want to have a really good handle on wheel parking and remembering where all your wheels are at any moment, but otherwise mostly a challenge in patience and stamina.

There are some fantastic resources here to help answer a lot of questions... definitely read through the Oldfast Chronicles posts. Lots of great guys here that will help you with any questions. This is a great place to learn. Have fun!
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SerratedRabbit

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Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 12:44 am

Location: Canada

Post Wed May 06, 2020 5:01 pm

Re: Safe lock Noob.

madsamurai wrote:Sounds like you're on the right track... I'm assuming you meant S&G 6730 (rather than 3760).


Thanks MadSamurai! Yes, 6730, I swear I double checked and triple checked but I seem to be dyslexic when it come to these safe models. that or my fingers refuse to type in the right order.

And YES! I have read most of both OldFast's chronicles. as well as anything I can get my hands on. I'm one of those read the manual first type people. :)

Thanks again for the reply!
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SerratedRabbit

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Posts: 8

Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 12:44 am

Location: Canada

Post Wed May 06, 2020 5:05 pm

Re: Safe lock Noob.

MartinHewitt wrote:Your question 2 has no question.



Ha! You are correct! But thankfully MadSamurai was able to understand my poor sentence structures :)

Thanks for the reply Mr. Hewitt!
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MartinHewitt

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Post Wed May 06, 2020 9:06 pm

Re: Safe lock Noob.

To be a bit more elaborate on the 4-wheel issue: It is really just more dialing. For a 3-wheel lock you need to dial for each number of a scan of W1 4xL, 3xR, 2xL, R and for the additional fourth wheel it is 5xR, 4xL, 3xR, 2xL, R for each position. If you can avoid that, great!
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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L4R3L2

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Location: Sutter County, CA

Post Thu May 07, 2020 12:41 am

Re: Safe lock Noob.

I hate cutting spindles, too. Once they're cut they cannot be uncut in any practical way.

I mounted a couple of my locks on 4x6 lumber blocks. The 3 1/2" nominal thickness requires that less than an inch of spindle needs to be cut to mount a four wheel lock. Ideally, you can shim the block out with plywood to the thickness needed to where you don't have to cut the spindle at all.

For one of my lock mount stands that I use to swap various practice locks out, I dedicated one dial to that stand and cut the spindle for a four wheel lock. When I mount a three wheel lock to that stand the spindle sticks out some, but I leave the cover off and use the regular spline key with the flag turned outboard. I don't bother worrying about the relocker. I can tell by feel when I have it solved, and when I go to center the combination. The bolt doesn't have to retract, unless its satisfying to you for it to do so.

Four wheel locks....more of the same, but different. You will find out that even the same lock will manipulate differently depending on the combination it is set to. You will find variations in difficulty with each manipulation, even in the same lock.For example, from my records the time of manipulating the same lock can vary by a magnitude of 14 times depending on the combination to which it is set (and, to a lesser degree, the frame of mind at the time). This is why I would suggest you manipulate some three wheel locks for a while before moving on to a four wheeler. JMO.

A four wheel lock will magnify the variations, compared to a three wheel lock. The geometries of four wheels and longer fence will do one of two things. Either there will be more shadowing, and you will have great difficulty in finding gates; or, you could end up finding two (three, if you're very lucky) gates on the first pass. Either way, four wheel locks will always take more time, relatively speaking, simply due to the extra turns involved.
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SerratedRabbit

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Posts: 8

Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 12:44 am

Location: Canada

Post Thu May 07, 2020 6:53 am

Re: Safe lock Noob.

Thanks L4R3L2!

Thanks to all of you!

I am now comfortable with jumping into another money pit of hobby. Hope it pairs well with my cigars!
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L4R3L2

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Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:48 am

Location: Sutter County, CA

Post Thu May 07, 2020 9:38 am

Re: Safe lock Noob.

It was decades ago, but Macanudo Earl of Lonsdale Café and Dunhill Montecruz maduro were my favorites, before handmade cigars became "money pits". I once bought some Cuban-made Montecristo pyramids in Canada around 1985 during a ski trip, but some thief in uniform stole them from me at the airport coming home.

I find a cup of weak coffee sharpens the senses for manipulating. Maybe coffee and a cigar might be even better! Good luck on your new hobby.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Thu May 07, 2020 9:53 am

Re: Safe lock Noob.

I hate cutting spindles too, but I hate leaving of the cover of too when it is not just mounted for one manipulation session. A loose cover can be easily misplaced over the months and years. In this case I build a mount from wood. For long spindles a U mount formed by three wooden boards. In the past I screwed them together, now I mostly just glue them. With used locks there come often some standard dials with spindles that are quite short already. It doesn't really matter if that is shortened a bit more. They are quite well suited for the plastic mounts.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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mk5734

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Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:14 am

Location: Michigan, USA

Post Thu May 07, 2020 5:32 pm

Re: Safe lock Noob.

I'd like to add a point about the wood block and leaving the cover off of the lock. Dirt is what will often kill a lock. The reason there are spindle-tubes is to prevent insulating material from the safe from entering the lock via the spindle. See S&G 8415 and 8435. It might pay to make a wider diameter hole in the wood block and then slide (hammer) a clean PVC tube through the hole to act as a spindle-tube. This is also why you should keep the cover on the lock.

Just my 2 cents.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Thu May 07, 2020 5:57 pm

Re: Safe lock Noob.

If these locks would be used every day, then it would certainly be worth considering the damage of dirt, but these locks are on display only and sit only bored around all year, maybe playing a game of dice at night.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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kenneth_v

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Posts: 5

Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:23 am

Location: Great White North

Post Fri May 08, 2020 3:30 am

Re: Safe lock Noob.

I have never had any duty charges when shipping in from the us

Make sure it is shipped USPS and not fedex or UPS as the brokerage fees will kill you and they never miss charging you everything they can!

When shipped USPS, I dont think there has ever been anything owed besides gst and pst, and often there is nothing owed, it just shows up at the door
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L4R3L2

Familiar Face

Posts: 214

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:48 am

Location: Sutter County, CA

Post Fri May 08, 2020 7:46 am

Re: Safe lock Noob.

Wood is solid enough, nothing comes loose, not a worry. What I don't understand are all these safes today with the spindles through sheets of drilled gypsum board and no tubes at all. If there were much concern, those would be it.
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MartinHewitt

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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:19 pm

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Post Fri May 08, 2020 8:28 am

Re: Safe lock Noob.

I don't think the guys building safes with dry wall are concerned with anything.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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