So the old story of buying a safe locked open

[warfinge]

So I bid on this boat anchor because I need a really good safe and won the thing. I have it in my Truck getting ready to move it to my shop. As I understand it, these things locked open are a gift from God for those inclined to puzzle out the system. Tis a Diebold and large enough to have it's own gravity well. At some point I will get better pics up after I get it into the light again. Any advice for a noob?

[jharveee]

Congratulations on your score.
As far as advice....Lift with your legs. Really be careful moving big heavy safes. Secure the doors so they don't swing while moving.

[MartinHewitt]

IMHO these are really nice display pieces, but they can be of use too, e.g. as a gun cabinet.

If you are lucky the combination is written on the red sheet. My first and most important advice is: Don't lock the door closed unless you have tested multiple times that you can unlock that lock. There is probably a cover for the lock which can be removed. From there you can start to find out the combination. If you post a photo we can help you with number of rotations in which direction. The bolt work and hinges might need some maintenance (cleaning, lubing) or not.

[warfinge]

So I used a cable "come along" to drag it into my poor van. The van has been abused before sadly. A lot. There will be no "hands on" moving of this thing. Once on a level concrete floor, I hope to move it to its final resting place. I had to use a chain to pull it out of the nesting spot it was in. I used a ratchet strap to stop the doors from crushing us. I really like the vintage look. I am finishing courses to be a Gunsmith and I need a substantial safe to comply with requirements. Now we know they aren't cheap but this one was $5 bux. Cheap enough. My personal gun safe is an elaborate sheet metal design with fire brick lining. Not considered formidable enough. I am excited about it and look forward to tackling the project.

[bitbuster]

Great buy. Can't see this as a 'display' piece unless in some big business that has a large lobby. Glad you bought it for its intended purpose, to put your 'stuff' in it.

[MartinHewitt]

A perfect display piece for a living room.

[MHM]

Just to post a slightly contrarian view - although this is a gorgeous old safe and a great display piece, you could run into huge legal and insurance liability issues if you're planning on using it for commercial use but mess with the lock yourself.

I'm sure that lock is going to be lovely to play with and figure out...but if this was me I'd be paying a safe technician to service it and make the safe secure, which may or may not also include afixing the safe to your building.

For what it's worth,

MHM.

[MartinHewitt]

If this is legal for storing guns (in Germany it wouldn't be, in the US it is probably in nearly all states), then I would not expect any legal problems with self-servicing. Nothing has been certified on this safe in the past and hence can't loose any certificate label. It is also unknown how professional all the people where who probably serviced this safe already.

[mk5734]

MHM maybe right about getting a professional locksmith for commercial use. In the US, there's no requirement to have your guns stored or locked up. At least not in any state that I'm aware of. But that maybe just for private use or carry on your own premises. Here in Michigan, you don't need a carry permit to carry anywhere on your property.

In the commercial realm, if you're working as a professional gunsmith, things are probably different. If a UL rated safe is required for gunsmithing business operation or insurance purposes, I'd bet this safe probably won't satisfy those requirements.

The best thing to do is inquire from a reliable source, look up your state's compiled laws, and make no assumptions otherwise.

[madsamurai]

FFL dealers in the US are required to keep guns secured in locked cages/safes/vaults... I'm not positive but I'm almost certain that applies to gunsmiths holding customer firearms as well. Would be worth doing your research and finding a lawyer who specializes in firearms law.

[warfinge]

So, the combo was written inside with an engraver. I found it after cleaning the mold from the inner door. It works but it's gritty and I am not comfortable closing the door just yet. Not sure if the intermittency of it unlocking is the lock or myself but the bolts are rusty and they need polishing. Need to clean the mold out. It really stinks. So, The safe is actually secure enough to serve the needs. My sheetmetal safe can be defeated with a drill and a sawzall. There are no specifications beyond wall thickness provided in my paperwork. I think I have the 1/4 plate requirement covered... I get inspections and I expect I will be told it will work. So so heavy. I have been hobbling around for days from moving this thing around with a railroad bar and determination. Pics tomorrow maybe if I can get a minute.

[MartinHewitt]

I'll keep my fingers crossed for the inspection.

[warfinge]

FFL dealers in the US are required to keep guns secured in locked cages/safes/vaults... I'm not positive but I'm almost certain that applies to gunsmiths holding customer firearms as well. Would be worth doing your research and finding a lawyer who specializes in firearms law.

I am to keep customer firearms secure whenever I am not working on them or more specifically, when I am not in their location. "Secure" implies in a safe or other secure condition whatever that might mean. Wiggle room I assume. Gunsmiths from other groups have told me the safe is fine and a few showed their own safes which were not as secure as my new acquisition. I think it will work out.

[MHM]

Really interesting thread in all sorts of ways, thanks for starting this @warfinge.

It's very interesting to see how different the firearm storage regs are in different jurisdictions. In New Zealand in theory a private owner with non-restricted firearms can keep them in a wooden container (ie, a locked cupboard) but in practice although this used to be common until about 20 years ago no-one does any more, they all use sheet metal "gunsafes"* bolted to the wall. For dealers and anyone with restricted firearms (pistols / "high capacity" mags / collectibles etc etc etc) the requirements are much more strict and it boils down to either an approved safe or strongroom, interested nerds may see Section 28 in the PDF doc below. The bit that I like is that the door has to have a lock of "no less security than a 5 lever mortise dead lock". However it then goes on to permit key retaining padlocks with a hasp and staple. If you find yourself wondering:

1. Why there is nothing to tell the inspecting Police Officer just what is, and what isn't, equivalent or better to a 5 lever mortise lock
2. Indeed what sort of 5 lever mortise lock we are talking about in the first place
3. What constitutes a "high security rating" padlock.
4. Who on earth was advising the government on this potpourii of non-sensical word salad

...then you are not alone.

Keep this thread updated OP, I'd love to see more pics of this thing.

MHM.



-snip-
A locking mechanism of no less strength and security performance than a five-lever mortise dead lock should be fitted to entry doors to the room. Where mechanisms other than mortise locks are used, internally operated drop bars or shooting bolt mechanisms retained by a lock to the same standard should be fitted. If padlocks are used, they should be of a key retaining variety of a high security rating with hardened steel closed shackles. Pad bars or hasp and staples with a similar high security rating to the padlock should be used with the padlock. Where closed shackle padlocks are not used, the mechanism should be completely shielded by being enclosed within a tunnel welded to the body of the door. In the case of double opening doors, penetrating bolts should be used on the top and bottom of the first leaf, or flush bolts should be fixed in the edge of the first leaf. The second leaf shall be securely locked, as described above.
-snip-

https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/defaul ... idance.pdf

*Which we all know are a joke and can be pried or cut open with very little effort, but I digress.

[warfinge]

Yes, our Bureau of alcohol, Tobacco, Firearm and Explosives is one of those hybrid government departments that evolves from chaos, created by bureaucrats with asinine foundations of archaic paperwork. I know the inspecting agents are polite and very serious. Humor is not advised when dealing with them because they have none. The paperwork is mind numbing but I am at a point finally where I can easily cope without laying awake at night wondering what I forgot. I plan to eventually make a secure room to work in IF the stars align and the income is forthcoming. Meanwhile, the new safe makes me feel better when I am away from home. Keep in mind, the purchase was due to my budget, not really the suitability of the safe. Government auctions here are kind of hit and miss for things like that. This auction was another I was following before I settled on the Diebold. https://www.ironplanet.com/for-sale/Shop%2C-Warehouse-%26-Consumer-Safe-California/3266874?h=5000%2Cq%7Csafe&rr=0.14286&hitprm=&pnLink=yes