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What model would this S&G group 2 lock be

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AL usher69

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Post Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:47 pm

What model would this S&G group 2 lock be

I just got this safe a gardall fire safe. It has this S&G combo lock a group 2 and I haven't found any information on it. It turns great and will be trying this one soon
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MartinHewitt

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Post Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:02 pm

Re: What model would this S&G group 2 lock be

Probably an R6709.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
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L4R3L2

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Post Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:46 pm

Re: What model would this S&G group 2 lock be

Yes, R6709.
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AL usher69

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Post Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:58 pm

Re: What model would this S&G group 2 lock be

Thanks guys I tried to find the model and had no luck. Now to manipulating to see what I come up with. Thanks guys.
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L4R3L2

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Post Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:04 pm

Re: What model would this S&G group 2 lock be

Edit: see post below..........
Last edited by L4R3L2 on Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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AL usher69

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Post Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:22 am

Re: What model would this S&G group 2 lock be

I'll post my adventures of this new find. I've just played with it so far.
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L4R3L2

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Post Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:32 am

Re: What model would this S&G group 2 lock be

O.K. I just manipped mine again today. What I had previously noted as being a quick and easy manipulation gave me some trouble today (same lock, same combo). Here is something to know about these.

This is one of those locks that does not have a detent on the bolt. It is beneficial to apply opening pressure on the safe's boltwork handle (after turning the dial CCW) throughout the manipulation to keep the lock bolt extended. This is especially important on this model due to the sharp hooks on the lever's nose and the drive cam's "left" contact point.

What happens if the lever is allowed to move freely is that if the lever is far enough into the wheel pack (such as when a gate is in line with the fence), the sharp nose of the lever can catch the sharp left contact point of the drive cam during during CW rotation, retracting the lever but then coming to a stop as the top of the lever hits the lever stop of the case. The lever stop is what forces the fence into the wheel pack during unlocking, but as not all of the gates are aligned, the lever gets stuck between the lever stop and the left contact point of the cam until you rotate the dial back. This may not be the case with all 6709s, but it is with mine, and all the one's I've seen have the sharp lever nose and drive cam contact point. Regardless, your contact readings will be more consistent with pressure on the handle.

With opening pressure on the safe's lever, manipulation should pan out as normal.
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AL usher69

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Post Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:02 pm

Re: What model would this S&G group 2 lock be

Usually I can feel the contact point pretty easy and even hear a click . I'm not getting much of anything except a click when I go by the left contact point. I'm thinking it's because it's on the floor and I'm laying down in front of it. I'm so use to having the safe locks in front of me while I'm sitting so comfortable. I'll put it on my table and give it a go. Thanks for the information
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:55 pm

Re: What model would this S&G group 2 lock be

Having a safe to be opened on the floor in the corner of the room under a table is not unusual.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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AL usher69

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Post Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:43 pm

Re: What model would this S&G group 2 lock be

It is for me untill now
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AL usher69

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Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:01 pm

Re: What model would this S&G group 2 lock be

L4R3L2 wrote:O.K. I just manipped mine again today. What I had previously noted as being a quick and easy manipulation gave me some trouble today (same lock, same combo). Here is something to know about these.

This is one of those locks that does not have a detent on the bolt. It is beneficial to apply opening pressure on the safe's boltwork handle (after turning the dial CCW) throughout the manipulation to keep the lock bolt extended. This is especially important on this model due to the sharp hooks on the lever's nose and the drive cam's "left" contact point.

What happens if the lever is allowed to move freely is that if the lever is far enough into the wheel pack (such as when a gate is in line with the fence), the sharp nose of the lever can catch the sharp left contact point of the drive cam during during CW rotation, retracting the lever but then coming to a stop as the top of the lever hits the lever stop of the case. The lever stop is what forces the fence into the wheel pack during unlocking, but as not all of the gates are aligned, the lever gets stuck between the lever stop and the left contact point of the cam until you rotate the dial back. This may not be the case with all 6709s, but it is with mine, and all the one's I've seen have the sharp lever nose and drive cam contact point. Regardless, your contact readings will be more consistent with pressure on the handle.

With opening pressure on the safe's lever, manipulation should pan out as normal.

You are right about feeling the left contact point grab and hearing it. It would seem to me like a flaw the way it so obvious. I'm glad not all safes were that easy nothing would be safe. Thank you ..
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AL usher69

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Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:26 am

Re: What model would this S&G group 2 lock be

After my big mouth I haven't been able to feel the left contact point like I did before. It seems to have vanished. I turn the handle like I did and it just doesn't seem to grab like it did.
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L4R3L2

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Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:28 am

Re: What model would this S&G group 2 lock be

AL usher69 wrote:After my big mouth I haven't been able to feel the left contact point like I did before. It seems to have vanished. I turn the handle like I did and it just doesn't seem to grab like it did.


That's what you want. You don't want the left CP to grab; It's not helpful.
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AL usher69

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Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:36 am

Re: What model would this S&G group 2 lock be

L4R3L2 wrote:
AL usher69 wrote:After my big mouth I haven't been able to feel the left contact point like I did before. It seems to have vanished. I turn the handle like I did and it just doesn't seem to grab like it did.


That's what you want. You don't want the left CP to grab; It's not helpful.

Ok it did seem to screw with getting consistency in getting the correct numbers. It would grab and then let go giving me different numbers. If that make sense thanks.

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