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Help with a Mosler 4216CL5

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tekatlarge

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Post Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:44 am

Help with a Mosler 4216CL5

Hello. I got this safe with the house I just purchased. I was given what was supposed to be the combination to this safe. It was 4 numbers for example the combonation was given to me and written as such so this is what I got.

Step 1
Turn the dial counterclockwise four times, until you reach 25

Step 2
Turn the dial clockwise three times, until you reach 88

Step 3
Turn the dial counterclockwise two times, until you reach 62

Step 4
Turn the dial clockwise and pause briefly at 9, then resume turning until it stops. The locking bolt retracts, opening the lock.

Step 5
Pull open the door of the safe. You may have to turn the handle counterclockwise before you can open the door.


4L 3R 2L R slowly till
the lock bolt retracts and the dial stops.

Well at least the safe is open so I can practice this opening without accidentally locking myself out.

Problem is I can't make the combination work no matter what I do. It refuses to unlock.

This is what I have doe so far.

Tried the combination front to back and back to front turning it every way possible and no luck. Decided to "Go in and see what is going on. The door cover is held with like 16 slotted screws around the inner door cover. In the area directly centered and opposite the dial. is 2 or so inch diameter round chrome cover looking thing attached to the lock body with 2 slotted screws. I have photographed the lock and tried to figure out what lock it is by looking all over the net for a similar lock, However So far I have not found any matches. I am hoping to identify the lock so I can learn about it and see if I am even trying to open the lock correctly and if not see why it doesn't open. There are 3 wheels attached to the back of the round chrome cover and you just take the 2 screws out and the cover and the attached wheel set comes away from a round hole in the lock body. I have very carefully dissembled the wheel set making sure every shim spring washer and gear are removed in order and replaced "Exactly" as they were. I checked the 3 wheels and confirmed the numbers I have matched each wheel with the exception of the last digit I think 9 it was. I was thinking the one wheel still in the lock body is probably the last digit. It would be nice to know if I am looking at the right stuff or not. I found nothing obvious going on with the wheels. They rotate with slight resistance which seems normal. No dirt or contamination. I did not clean or re lube anything as I heard that could really mess things up. So if anyone can help me out by telling me what I have would be an awesome start for me. The pic names are self explanatory so if you have any ideas as to whats next I am all ears. Thank you for your time.

So I am going to attach some photos if I can and maybe someone will recognize this lock and tell me the model or even how to get it to work.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:28 am

Re: Help with a Mosler 4216CL5

This is a Mosler B-6. At least the rotation direction is wrong. Use 4R 3L 2R L. If you turn the dial left without the wheel pack the bolt will retract, if you do turn it right it won't. The last wheel is officially set to 60, so 62 could be correct. Dial your combination (without the last L) with the wheel pack inserted and remove the wheel pack. Are then all gates aligned?
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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SafecrackinSammmy

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Post Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:04 pm

Re: Help with a Mosler 4216CL5

Thats a Mosler model 6B with washer and tube. {Not B6)

Martin is correct on the turns. Modern locks go 4L,3R,2L right to stop and inexperienced techs will assume that does everything. This lock MAY open using those turns but it will be sporadic as you are experiencing.
If correcting the turns does not get a consistent combination:

Try as Martin suggests and run the combination less the last turn to open then remove the back cover. See if all of the wheels are aligned in one spot.

If this is correct then run the original combination using the correct turns adding or subtracting one number from all numbers in the combination. (ex 26-89-63/24-87-61 ) Continue going up/down until you reach a combination that opens consistently. It shouldnt be more than a few numbers from your original combination.

If the wheels do NOT line up in one spot with your original combination then you will need to refine your original combination by adding/subtracting to the number for the wheel/wheels that are not lining up. Then proceed with the above for the entire combination if needed.

Keep in mind the numbers on the wheels sometimes do not correspond to the numbers on the dial. IE 62 on the wheel may end up being 61 on the dial. If you are changing a combination or decoding the lock, its best to write down the given combination, then the number shown on each wheel. This gives you the "correction factor" to help match them up.

And safe servicing 101: Always always always (did I say always?) run the door FULL cycle multiple times before you close it. Ie dial the combination, turn the handle, check that the bolts fully retracted, repeat.
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tekatlarge

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Location: Coastal Washington State

Post Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:53 pm

Re: Help with a Mosler 4216CL5

That is awesome information guys! I feel prepared to do battle now. I just checked the dial and Yes turning left it does release the handle. I will head out to the workshop sometime today and re install the wheel pack and give it a whirl. I think what threw me was the 4th number and the instructions I was given. I hope things go well this time. Thank you for the time and information. I will let ya know how this works out.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:58 pm

Re: Help with a Mosler 4216CL5

SafecrackinSammmy wrote:Thats a Mosler model 6B with washer and tube. {Not B6)

So this model number is an error in McOmie's book?
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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SafecrackinSammmy

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Post Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:03 am

Re: Help with a Mosler 4216CL5

MartinHewitt wrote:
SafecrackinSammmy wrote:Thats a Mosler model 6B with washer and tube. {Not B6)

So this model number is an error in McOmie's book?



Check the HPC Safe and Vault manual.

SquelchTone had this listed just last year also

https://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopi ... 36&t=65204
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
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Post Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:13 am

Re: Help with a Mosler 4216CL5

SafecrackinSammmy wrote:
MartinHewitt wrote:
SafecrackinSammmy wrote:Thats a Mosler model 6B with washer and tube. {Not B6)

So this model number is an error in McOmie's book?

Check the HPC Safe and Vault manual.

SquelchTone had this listed just last year also

https://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopi ... 36&t=65204

Ahh! Interesting. Thanks for this Sammy.
TekatLarge, let us know how it goes.
Can't wait to see more photos.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:57 am

Re: Help with a Mosler 4216CL5

SafecrackinSammmy wrote:Check the HPC Safe and Vault manual.
https://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopi ... 36&t=65204

Thanks! Now I understand the Mosler numbers in the HPC manual. I thought always that my golden Mosler looks like the No. 6 in the HPC manual, but it is clearly a version of the No. 5. I should have understood it earlier as the main difference between both seems to be the No. 5 has 4 wheels while the No. 6 has 3.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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mastersmith

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Post Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:52 pm

Re: Help with a Mosler 4216CL5

I have a question fellas. Not being familiar with this particular lock, would the 2 number discrepancy be from dialing it backwards? Perhaps that is the issue all along? Just wondering..... :???:
"All ye who come this art to see / to handle anything must cautious be...." Benjamin Franklin
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MartinHewitt

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Post Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:06 am

Re: Help with a Mosler 4216CL5

I would say unlikely. The lock doesn't open with the given description. If the description contained something like R to 90, L to open, then it could open, but so it can't. The Mosler 5, which I have, has very precise flies. I can open it left and right with four wheels at the same number (currently all set to 50). What is not that precise is the mounting of the dial ring and perhaps also the lock body.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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tekatlarge

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Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:37 am

Re: Help with a Mosler 4216CL5

OK Guys Thank you for your help in getting this safe working again. I have the lock opening and closing consistently now! It was just a direction error and a non awareness of how the bolt works! I used the pattern you guys suggested and it works with 1 caveat.
When the lock pack was removed and I turned the dial left the bolt slid back easily with just a light effort. When the lock pack is installed and I hit the last number to open there seems to be a fair amount of force required to open the bolt. Is this normal? Oh and this is with the door open. (I am not that trusting yet) Before I seal this door back up is there any routine maintenance that can be or should be done to the lock and hardware? anything that needs to be lubed I would appreciate know the correct lube. Thanks for your assistance in my efforts. :cool:
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MartinHewitt

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Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:27 am

Re: Help with a Mosler 4216CL5

Perhaps one or more numbers are slightly off? Then it can need more force to start moving and getting the lever into the fences. Dial combination, remove wheel pack and check. Or try increasing/decreasing the numbers by one.

Another reason might be, that the last number is in the forbidden zone, but I don't think this is the case.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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tekatlarge

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Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:37 am

Location: Coastal Washington State

Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:46 pm

Re: Help with a Mosler 4216CL5

The last number I am working with is 9 I think I read that 0 to 10 is the forbidden zone. If that is the case can that last number be changed to say before 0 or after 10?
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MartinHewitt

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Post Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:57 pm

Re: Help with a Mosler 4216CL5

Unless you changed he comvination the last number is 62. The number where the lock stops is not part of the combination.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
<<

tekatlarge

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Posts: 6

Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:37 am

Location: Coastal Washington State

Post Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:10 am

Re: Help with a Mosler 4216CL5

Ohhhh My Bad on this one. I was thinking that 9 was the last # Any ideas on a standard maintenance that should be done before I seal this up?

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