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Fichet Bauche "3-wheel" combination lock

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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:08 pm

Fichet Bauche "3-wheel" combination lock

Don't know the name for this lock, would like to show it nonetheless.

This one has three wheels. There are also version with four. Each wheel is turned separately with the tip of a Fichet-Bauche key where it makes clicking sounds. So they are not used without a key lock. Each wheel has 20 different positions, so there are 20^3=8000 different and possible combinations. The wheels are reset by turning counter-clockwise where they stop at 0. For unlocking the clicks from this position in clockwise direction have to be counted. So "1" is certainly much more often used than "19". Photo 1 shows the lock locked. The forked locking element on the left is lowered and the bolt work is blocked. Photo 2 shows the lock unlocked. The locking element leaves a gap for the bolt work. Each wheel is round with one edge cut of. When all three cut-offs are correctly positioned the blocking element moves to the open position. On top of photo 3 there is the cut-of turned to the viewer and the lock is locked. On the bottom the cut-of is turned towards the blocking element and the lock is unlocked. The combination can be changed after unlocking the lock and turning a knob at the back.

The lock can be manipulated by sound and feeling.
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SafecrackinSammmy

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Post Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:34 pm

Re: Fichet Bauche "3-wheel" combination lock

I was thinking of that exact same lock earlier from your other thread!

We had one new Fitchet safe with that lock on it brand new in our shop back in the late 1980's.
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Werewolf

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Post Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:03 pm

Re: Fichet Bauche "3-wheel" combination lock

Does anyone have a manual for these ?
One of my customers has a safe with this type of lock and wants to change the code.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:53 pm

Re: Fichet Bauche "3-wheel" combination lock

1) Open the safe
2) Move the bolt work (or whatever the safe has there) out of the combination lock blocking mechanism with the old combination still set
3) Turn the knob on the back 180° where it stops (I think clockwise. It is not possible to turn it into a wrong direction.)
4) Configure new combination, i.e. turn each of the wheels back to position 0 and turn then the new number of clicks
5) Return the knob to the default position where it stops
6) As always: Test the new combination thoroughly. All of these locks which I have seen have visible red dots when the combination is set to unlock the lock. This can help as a guide in case there is an error.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
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safecracker33

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Post Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:26 pm

Re: Fichet Bauche "3-wheel" combination lock

I think the model is the C2C or some variant of that, they can be operated by keys, or a dial or an escutcheon if I remember correctly. Quite easy to manipulate but very rewarding the first time you do one on a safe.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:23 pm

Re: Fichet Bauche "3-wheel" combination lock

I have not found any name for this key operated combination lock. There are other combination locks from Fichet-Bauche with a dial-in-dial. One dial selects the position (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. number) and the other dial changes its code. Each position can have 13 values. For a lock with 4 positions (or perhaps wheels) I have found the names C2C and MC4. At least the MC4 is a EN1300 grade A lock. For the high-end version with 7 "wheels" I have found the name Moneo and it is a grade C lock. I don't know about the C2C/MC4 (I guess it is constructed like the Moneo), but the Moneo I have retracts a bolt on opening and resets the wheel positions so they can't be read out (back-dialing). So I believe the Moneo has a significant enough construction from the key-operated lock.

PS: The knob on the back might not be visible and might need a screw driver to be operated.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
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safecracker33

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Post Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:26 pm

Re: Fichet Bauche "3-wheel" combination lock

The seven clicker version has had several incarnations, monocommande, moneo, septen visual (lines to count rather than clicks) and the dial retracts the bolt as opposed to the C2C? one you have where the fork is spring loaded and normally blocks a stud on the safe boltwork.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:47 pm

Re: Fichet Bauche "3-wheel" combination lock

Here is the opening of a dial-in-dial lock which this guy calls C2C and which looks like a look which is currently sold as MC4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzrFEyR3gEg
This shows nicely how this type and also the 7-wheel version works. In my lock the fork is automatically moving to the side, when all wheels are positioned correctly. In this dial-in-dial version there is a bolt which has to be moved actively with the dial at a certain position. If manipulation is possible it is certainly a lot more difficult.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Oliv

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Post Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:02 pm

Re: Fichet Bauche "3-wheel" combination lock

This lock is not a C2C nor and MC4 but a "Combinaison à 3 compteurs", always installed in addition with a key lock.

Image

When combination is correct, two tails are ligned as in picture 2 and let the boltwork moved.

About the C2C : https://forum.serrurerie.info/notices-c ... ttach=2122
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MartinHewitt

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Post Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:06 pm

Re: Fichet Bauche "3-wheel" combination lock

Thanks, Oliv

This forum does probably not allow to have a look unless logged in.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
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Oliv

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Post Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:24 pm

Re: Fichet Bauche "3-wheel" combination lock

Yes, you must be loggued to be able to see pictures and pdf.

This forum is the best I know concerning french safes and lock.

About C2C, the internal locking design of the lock is the almost the same as 3 compteurs (using tailing to avoid boltwork movement).
But it use 4 (the empty holes you see on you pictures) and a really different and more complex knob model to use to select combination.
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Flanker_27K

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Post Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:03 pm

Re: Fichet Bauche "3-wheel" combination lock

Oh, another French Olivier :D

And thanks for the thorough article anyways, it's always great to discover how that kind of stuff works. I'm a newcomer to this world, and it's understandable enough for me!

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