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Hall's Safe Co lock identification

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madsamurai

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Post Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:43 pm

Hall's Safe Co lock identification

So, a friend of mine just texted me to see if I would open this for him. Of course, I told him "Of course!" So I've got until he picks it up in Feb to figure out what I'm up against... From what I've found in quick googling and searching here, it seems likely to be a direct-entry lock (the Hall's Straight Tailpiece?), it has an identical dial/handle relationship with the Hall's safe in this thread, but that's all I've got to go on so far.

I was hoping one of you guys could confirm/deny that assumption. I don't have any decent references yet to look it up.

Image

Historically, from what I've been able to find, Hall's Safe Co was formed in 1896 (when Hall's Safe & Lock Co branched into two companies) and closed 1927. The Ubiko Milling Company (also located in Cincinnati OH) was open from 1902-1956. That would put the likely birthday of this particular safe somewhere between 1902 and 1927.
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bitbuster

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Post Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:19 pm

Re: Hall's Safe Co lock identification

If it has a severe bind when turning dial and handle then yes, it is a direct entry. It may also have an inner chest. (50-50 chance). Dial can have either 100 or 130 numbers.
"I dream of a world where, chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned."......Ralph Waldo Emerson
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madsamurai

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Post Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:26 pm

Re: Hall's Safe Co lock identification

bitbuster wrote:If it has a severe bind when turning dial and handle then yes, it is a direct entry. It may also have an inner chest. (50-50 chance). Dial can have either 100 or 130 numbers.

Right, just trying to find out if there might be some other lock under there that might catch me by surprise. I can't see digits on the dial in the picture, and when I asked him he said he didn't look that closely, so I don't know if it's the 100 or 130 dial.
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bitbuster

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Post Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:35 am

Re: Hall's Safe Co lock identification

A very, very, very far chance it would have an S&G 6575 indirect vault lock. Dial has a forbidden zone and a patent date of May 22, 1906. Most likely the direct entry lock.
"I dream of a world where, chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned."......Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Oldfast

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Post Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:08 am

Re: Hall's Safe Co lock identification

.

I still have yet to run into a Hall's... so I'm not of much help. I did poor over what little I have of books, catalogs, and files in hopes of helping you - but also for myself, as I'm curious; just how many types of locks did they use and what are we apt to encounter? The answer is... not many.


As it's already been mentioned, the most prevalent by FAR is going the be Hall's DE lock. The drive wheel on these (as you already know) has 10 gates, 9 of which are false. Take an accurate wheel count before ya really get goin' Chad. Some had 3 wheels, others 4. Technically, I should say
3 wheels + drive wheel (4# combo) or...
4 wheels + drive wheel (5# combo).
The handle on yours (next to dial) should turn CCW to open.
The proper dialing sequence for these locks:
(4# combo) LRLR ... and... (5# combo) RLRLR.
There's also a possibility you open it up to find an inner-chest... double the fun :)

They also used an S&G 6575, but I agree with Bitbuster... there's basically a zero percent chance here. This was an indirect-drive, 4 wheel lock, normally used on vaults or Banker's safes.

And of course, the famous Hall's 'Premier'' lock. All of them being 5 wheel. Again unlikely. These I think were used more so on the high-end safes and some inner-chests. From what I've heard, they're quite rare today and we could only be so lucky to stumble upon one.

Lastly, (this one might also be rare), I did come across what we would consider a more 'standard' lock, i.e. normal drive cam and drop lever. It was believed to be made by Halls. 3 hand-change wheels. The lever; I couldn't tell if it was spring-loaded or gravity driven. Drive cam; the sloped RCP we're use to. Dialing would be LRL Right to Stop.


So, we have to wait a whole month?! :D
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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bitbuster

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Post Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:42 am

Re: Hall's Safe Co lock identification

I agree with what Oldfast stated. Also, there may be a keyed single or split-door on inside. If there is a chest, it could have the direct entry lock or Hall's own four-wheel lock ( don't recall name/number) or the Premiere lock. All Premiere locks and the unknown Hall's locks I have seen have always used a 70 numbered, removal dial.
"I dream of a world where, chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned."......Ralph Waldo Emerson
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madsamurai

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Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:23 am

Re: Hall's Safe Co lock identification

Thanks, gentlemen... that pretty much confirms what I had found and definitely helps the ol' confidence. I'm looking forward to it, but yeah, I gotta wait a whole month and hope he doesn't change his mind about it in the mean time. I will definitely talk him into letting me take a bunch of pictures and tell you all about it. Word is it's empty and was last open at least 10 years ago... there wasn't any mention of an inner chest, but that would be a pretty cool surprise. I'll keep you all posted.
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madsamurai

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Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:14 am

Re: Hall's Safe Co lock identification

sad news, I'm afraid... the guy my buddy was getting this from decided to change his mind and backed out of the deal. Even so, I managed to learn a little, so not a complete loss, but I am kinda bummed I won't get a shot at opening it. Thanks for the help, gents
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Oldfast

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Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:54 am

Re: Hall's Safe Co lock identification

Ah man. Yeah, that's too bad. But you're right... still learned some things as we all tried to 'fore-cast' what we'd be dealing with :)
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."

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