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Overview of fence types

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MartinHewitt

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Post Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:03 pm

Overview of fence types

I made a list of fence types from the locks which I have found. I am sure there were much much more different types of fences invented, but I think only what is used is relevant.

The fences in reading order are:

1) Bolt blocking fence where gravity is pulling the fence up.
2) Standard bolt mounted and bolt pulling lever. The lever can be pushed down with spring force, gravity, tomahawk, you name it.
3) Direct entry. The fence is directly connected with the bolt work and moved by the handle.
4) Indirect direct entry. The fence is not directly connected with the bolt work, but moved nonetheless by the handle.
5) Bolt blocking fence where gravity is pulling the fence down.
6) Case mounted spring loaded fence which is pulling the bolt. The fence can be a V or can have just one arm.
7) Case mounted friction operated fence. The fence is always a V.
8) Like type 2, but it is pushing the fence.

1 and 5 could be put together into one type, the same with 2 and 8, 3 and 5, 6 and 7.

I didn't think it to be important to distinguish between nose + finger (like in 6730) and straight fence (like in 6535).

I also didn't want to spread up type 2 into all the different possibilities of lever movement. There are zillions.
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Oldfast

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Post Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:48 pm

Re: Overview of fence types

Great stuff here Martin! As you say, there's probably others, sure... but you've really done a nice job in covering the vast majority of what we're apt to see.

I would've loved(!) to see something like this when I was first starting out. It can really be a daunting task in uncharted territory at first - never knowing what the hell I'd be working with. It's all well and good if you have access to certain files, but many of us may not have this luxury. The alternative is to fly by the seat of your pants, getting your ass kicked along the way, until you see and experience most of them for yourself. And lemme tell ya, that's a long hard road. lol

Anyway, it's great to see them condensed and presented all in one place like this. Nice effort on your part Martin. I'll tryn' add some photos along the way that fit within your categories. For example, I ran into a Baum not long ago. They often use the counter-weighted gravity fence (type #1 on your list). It's basically their version of Yale's OBB lock. When I've cropped my pics, I'll send one over this way.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:55 pm

Re: Overview of fence types

Thanks, Oldfast.

The counter-weighted gravity fence (great name!) is type 1 because Baum begins with B. :)
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Oldfast

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Post Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:19 pm

Re: Overview of fence types

Image


Image
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MartinHewitt

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Post Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:14 pm

Re: Overview of fence types

You are so lucky to live in the land of the combination locks!
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Squelchtone

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Post Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:31 am

Re: Overview of fence types

Have you seen this type of fence/lever combination? https://www.ebay.com/itm/254038062341

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Squelchtone

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Post Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:38 am

Re: Overview of fence types

This article outlines some lock types. What you would call a Spring fence in your drawing, The Yale 0700 is what I would call a flipper fence but this locksmith calls it a spring assisted drop lever, while he calls another type of lock a flipper fence.

https://alphalocksmith.ca/mechanical-safe-locks/
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MartinHewitt

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Post Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:39 am

Re: Overview of fence types

C87 Is this some kind of friction fence where the friction is at the drive cam?

The names from https://alphalocksmith.ca/mechanical-safe-locks/

Type 1: Open Bottom
Type 2 and 8, when gravity controlled: Drop Lever
Type 2 and 8, when spring-loaded: Spring-Assisted Drop Lever
Type 2 or any other when manipulation-resistant: Manipulation-Resistant
Type 3: Direct Entry
Type 6 with two armed fence: Elbow Fence
Type 6 with one armed fence: Flipper Fence
Type 7: Friction Fence
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MartinHewitt

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Post Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:44 pm

Re: Overview of fence types

Yup, C87 is some kind of friction fence. https://patents.google.com/patent/US1484692A
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Squelchtone

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Post Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:25 am

Re: Overview of fence types

MartinHewitt wrote:Yup, C87 is some kind of friction fence. https://patents.google.com/patent/US1484692A


nice job finding the patent drawings! I think you should write a book with nice color photos of antique, vintage, and modern safe locks from every angle, and include the patents and patent drawings. This would be a very useful resource for safe technicians and collectors.

I have one of the Dave McOmie books that has lots of X-ray diagrams of many common models that were installed in safes over the last 150 years, it's a good resource, but more information is always better.

Thanks for posting,
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MartinHewitt

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Post Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:38 am

Re: Overview of fence types

McOmie's book is a really good one, but I miss descriptions how things work. Also in Kevin Richards' book I miss the lock names. Maybe I should make add-ons to these books.

I made (hopefully) full list of patents for the pork pie: https://wiki.koksa.org/Kromer-Protector-Patente Doing this for the other locks would be like Shakespeare for Goethe. There are soooo many patents and most of them from a time where most patent offices put not that much effort it making them accessible. The German patents before about 1875 are not even at the patent office at all. The first Kromer Protector patent is at the Privy State Archives Prussian Cultural Heritage. I had to order and pay for it.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: Overview of fence types

Squelchtone, a late Christmas present from me for you:

The patent of the movable fly! https://patents.google.com/patent/US821548 So now we know it's from 1904/6.
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Oldfast

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Post Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:43 pm

Re: Overview of fence types

SquelchtOOOOoooone! :D Good to see ya.

Very interesting lock you've posted here, the C87.
I was tempted to buy that... but someone got it.
Hopefully someone around here grabbed it and
we'll hear more about this one at some point.

And you're right... Martin is awfully crafty at digging up those old patents.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:59 pm

Re: Overview of fence types

Thanks, Oldfast, for waiting longer than I! :)

Patent search is mostly labor. Make some simple searches like "Sargent lock" or one of the ominous patent categories combined with a date range. Then you get something between 20 and 1000 patents. Refine the search in the later case. If it's below 100 patents, then start downloading all patents, which are not obviously unwanted. Then look through them all in more detail and sort them according to patent owner. And after some hours you will find something like the movable fly! That is how it works for US patents. With e.g. German patents you can forget searches like "Sargent lock" as there is no full search possible before 1970 or so. So only patent categories and date ranges works for nearly all the patents I'm interested in. Download is also not just a click, but multiple clicks and some form of Capcha. So it is a really bad service for the only good use of patents here and you can imagine how this increases search time.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:10 am

Re: Overview of fence types

MartinHewitt wrote:Thanks, Oldfast, for waiting longer than I! :)

:rofl: Well if so, I'm thrilled to hear it was you who grabbed it.
No doubt you'll give us a nice rundown on it once mounted.
In a way, I'll get to experience the C87 all for FREE :D
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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