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Friction-Fence Locks

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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:02 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Absolutely! We'd love to see more. Thanks Jan
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madsamurai

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Post Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:03 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Thanks for the explanation, 00247. Makes perfect sense now. Oldfast, you're right, it would be easy to figure out if I had one, but for as much as everyone says they're fairly common, I've not found one for myself yet. Always looking, tho... So many locks, so little money...

Jan, we all do love some lock porn here (especially Oldfast)... please post as many pictures as you like, and welcome to the forum :)
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

(Really amazing, that we can write here "lock porn" without having to write "lock p*rn". Thanks!)
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Janp

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Post Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

I will post tomorrow. It’s here 21:51h right now.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:39 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

.

Exploded Yale OC5 and some closeup views (top & bottom) of the drive cam and friction-fence assembly.

Image



Image
Image



Image

Another important note when manipulating these:

Notice the arc-shaped relocker in the bottom left corner of the case.
It's spring-loaded and rides against the drive cam at all times. You can
see the upper portion of the arc touching the driver at about 9 o'clock.
If the lock were punched, the other end of this arc drops, blocking the
channel that the bolt would ride in as it's retracted.

Important for us is the fact that the relocker can be felt/heard
thru the dial whenever the driver gate passes by it. If your OC5
is fitted with a relocker, you'll feel this at about 50. Verify this
by bringing only the driver through this area, and notice you'll
feel it when turning in either direction. This type of relocker
is also found in Yale's M16 lock, but will be felt at around 20.

You could mistakenly identify these as a gate, or, use them as
your contact point(s)... chasing a lock for hours to no avail.
Avoid this confusion and frustration... and remember....

* Yale OC5: relocker will be felt at about 50...
but true CP is at around 0 when turning LEFT

* Yale M16: relocker will be felt at about 20...
but true CP is at about 0 when turning RIGHT


.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:43 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Clever design! Does it have problems? Wear? Does it still work with a borken spring?
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:59 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

MartinHewitt wrote:Clever design! Does it have problems? Wear?

Of the few I've serviced, no. Always appear to be in good working order.

MartinHewitt wrote:Does it still work with a broken spring?

Good question. Not sure. Really just speculation on my part...
but no, I don't think this would create a problem. The driver's
still holding it in place, so it shouldn't drop enough to impede
bolt movement. I can't see how this could create a lock-out.

If the cam was punched, gravity would bring it down to
interfere with bolt retraction. Without spring pressure
though, it's hard to say whether or not it would stay
there to do it's job. Seems like it would, but I dunno.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4309

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:02 am

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Where's Squelchtone?! He needs to get in on some of this easy gravy :D
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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L4R3L2

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Post Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:36 am

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Great information here! Thank you.

I could be totally off base, but I seem to remember seeing that the OC-5 friction fence has a light coil spring inside. I think I had seen one that had fallen apart.

madsamurai wrote:Oldfast, you're right, it would be easy to figure out if I had one, but for as much as everyone says they're fairly common, I've not found one for myself yet.


It seems they are common on safes, but hard to find as stand-alone locks, and rather pricey when found. That's been my observation so far.
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Janp

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Post Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:12 am

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Mosler friction fence lock (Yale 29 1/2?)
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Janp

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Post Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:14 am

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Some more pictures. Once the safe door is open you can remove the back plate of the lock by dialing the numbers to the other index. In that case you can slide the back cover to open it.
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Janp

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Post Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:33 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

My Yale OC5. I don’t have the spring inside.
And is there anyone who can help me with a index ring for this lock? Dimension of the dial is 63,19mm/ 2.48 inch.
I’ll hope!
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:19 am

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Janp wrote:Mosler friction fence lock (Yale 29 1/2?)

I agree... I'd also say this is an 029 1/2

What a gorgeous lock. Thank you for sharing it Jan. Pictures of these are important because most of us don't see many. Personally, I've run into less than a handful. It's interesting to think about these. (No idea if this is correct, but) I'm assuming the initial motives behind this design was to combat punch attacks. But offsetting the spindle away from the wheel pack (along with the added gears to accomplish this), ended up having other implications for manipulators years later. Undoubtedly, this adds a new level of difficulty. I'd imagine you'll rarely see a safe-tech attempting to spin one of these.

Janp wrote:Some more pictures. Once the safe door is open you can remove the back plate of the lock by dialing the numbers to the other index. In that case you can slide the back cover to open it.

Exactly. L.O.B.C (Locked On By Combination). Dialing the combo to the L.O.B.C index aligns the gates with the protrusion on the cover (as you've shown), allowing it to slide to the side to be removed. I had one where the door was open, but no combo. Applying a decent amount of force to the cover will bring the protrusion against the wheels, allowing you to (in a way) manipulate it. How often and how easily does it happen?... couldn't say. Only done it once. But it's an interesting tid-bit of info anyway before you drill a small peek-hole in the cover.

Janp wrote:And is there anyone who can help me with a index ring for this lock? Dimension of the dial is 63,19mm/ 2.48 inch.
I’ll hope!

I don't think so... but I'm gonna have a look around for you.

The end of the tube that accepts the dial ring: I'm assuming it's threaded on the end and has to 'notches' cut out of it?
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4309

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

L4R3L2 wrote:Great information here! Thank you.
I could be totally off base, but I seem to remember seeing that the OC-5 friction fence has a light coil spring inside. I think I had seen one that had fallen apart.
madsamurai wrote:Oldfast, you're right, it would be easy to figure out if I had one, but for as much as everyone says they're fairly common, I've not found one for myself yet.

It seems they are common on safes, but hard to find as stand-alone locks, and rather pricey when found. That's been my observation so far.

Thanks Terry! I was wondering when you'd show up around these parts :D

You're right... most of them on ebay tend to be grossly overpriced IMO.

And how about the 0402? Had time to mount it yet?
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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L4R3L2

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Post Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:09 am

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Oldfast wrote:And how about the 0402? Had time to mount it yet?


No. The nice thing about an old lock with the tube is that it's all a self-contained unit. The ring is solid with the tube and body. But, other than that, I've been too busy, and today I just started working for a local locksmith. We'll see how that works out. But, I did find out that the owner had tried manipulation and decided it wasn't for him. So, straight to drilling. Hopefully, I can convince him to give me a shot at manipulation on some of the older or nicer safes. I don't know, though, how he'd take it since he seems to feel it's a waste of time. With work and family now, I may be a bit scarce around here during the week.
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