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Friction-Fence Locks

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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:01 am

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

The Lockmasters safe manipulation course calls the friction fence a "geared roller fence" and the version with spring a "spring loaded roller fence".
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MartinHewitt

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Post Thu May 07, 2020 6:04 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Spend a fortune on a new lock. From what I see in my HPC manual I think it is a Mosler No.11. A really huge and heavy lock with a nice finish. What is puzzling me is the material. It isn't ferromagnetic at all. I guess it is plated. Does anyone know? And I would like to know what to do with the L and R marks on the gear. I assume these are important for LH and RH mounting, but I don't know when and where to put them.

On the bottom photo is a FAS 6880 (didn't have a MagicModule combination lock at hand) and a Kromer 15B (size of a current S&G vault lock).
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MartinHewitt

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Post Thu May 07, 2020 6:20 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

It is probably made from plated cast brass or bronze. The density is 8.4g/cm^3.
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madsamurai

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Post Thu May 07, 2020 6:57 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Just guessing, but I'd think for right hand mounting you would pull that gear out and turn it so the R is aligned with the slot, then put it back in to mesh with the other gear... basically just moving the key slot 180 degrees so the dial will align. I'm thinking it's not aligned correctly in the picture, but close for left hand mounting. The wheel pack would have to be in the right position... maybe it shows something in the notch when it's correct?
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MartinHewitt

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Post Thu May 07, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

The gate in the drive cam has about the same size and form as the arc around the letters. That is a sign!
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sat May 09, 2020 11:04 am

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

I mounted recently my Mosler 5H. It was installed in a safe with a 1/2" steel plate, but I don't have any proper wood boards of that thickness. So I cut strips 1/4" of a board and glued it together to make a 1/2" board.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sat May 09, 2020 5:53 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

And mounted my Yale 026 which was a gift from Gerald. It is a roller bolt friction fence lock. The dial is splined for left hand mounting. As far as I know there is only one universal handedness of the lock. Final rotation is right.

The patents on the dial are US117478, US142529, probably US153588, US232086 (Construction of the dial), US234085 and US233950 (Mesh change wheel).

I could not find any suitable screws, so I modified screws for Phillips screw drivers to look more like the old have been.
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femurat

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Post Sat May 09, 2020 8:21 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

You couldn't find slotted machine screws, so you made them yourself. That's what I call ingenuity!

Cheers :)
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun May 10, 2020 12:13 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Thanks, femuart!

I would like to date my friction fence Moslers as far as possible. Both of them have a dial like that attached. The attached dial is for the Mosler 11, which has a safe opening index at the top and a case opening index at the bottom. There isn't much about Mosler online. They moved to Hamilton in 1891, so my locks must have been made after 1891. Duh! And they stayed there until 2001, so they must be made before 2001. Duh! The last patent for the Mosler Bank Safe Co. which I found was 1892, the first for Mosler Safe Co. was 1919, last 1974 with no patent afterwards. Not much of an improvement as it actually narrows it down only to 1892-2001. If we take into account the date of the friction fence patent from Yale it is 1906-2001. Moslers copy of S&G's current vault lock line started in 1968. That could be seen as an end-date, but it is not a replacement of the Mosler 11 due to the size. Let's say my 11 was not a later replacement, then we have 1892-1968. That is about what I have as data.

From my feeling about the design of the dial my guess is 1920s - 1940s for both locks.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun May 10, 2020 9:02 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Found chicken scratch in my Mosler 11 cover. Seems to read PR(T)S 1995. P can also be a D. The T is somehow squeezed in and might also just be random scratches. So it could be PRS, PRTS, DRS, DRTS. 1995 could be a year. Maybe when it was serviced? Any ideas?
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sat May 16, 2020 7:19 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

:hbg:

I think I have found now THE FRICTION FENCE PATENT: https://patents.google.com/patent/US294821A/en

And that somehow too: https://patents.google.com/patent/US294701A/en

Mosler dial imprint told it me.
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madsamurai

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Post Sun May 17, 2020 2:19 am

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Fantastic! I love those old lock diagrams... I've been dreaming about a bunch of posters of these in my lock room, but haven't been able to find many good ones yet. Thanks!
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L4R3L2

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Post Sun May 17, 2020 3:04 am

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Those look like the most likely candidates. Thank you for sharing them! Now, I wonder who came up with the idea of adding leaf springs for more consistent friction.
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Oldfast

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Post Mon May 18, 2020 6:02 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Ahhhh, the friction fence in all its glory :D

Mr. Hewitt !! Don't think for a second I haven't been keeping my eye on you sir! You've been going strong all this time. Good man! Many beautiful locks you're getting mounted up lately. Beautiful!! And the recent patents you've found... very interesting. You were always good a digging those up. Carry on good sir! Carry on.

madsamurai wrote:Fantastic! I love those old lock diagrams... I've been dreaming about a bunch of posters of these in my lock room, but haven't been able to find many good ones yet. Thanks!

HERE Chad. Could become a bit of a project for you to fill all the way around your lockroom. Just be sure to leave space for locks lol
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MartinHewitt

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Post Mon May 18, 2020 6:52 pm

Re: Friction-Fence Locks

Oldfast, you are alive! Thank you for your visit! I have just asked a few days ago in the chat about you. And thank you for your praise!

Finding US patents is really not that difficult. I think the problem is, that there is just nobody looking for them. Finding old German patents is horrible. And with "old" I mean "before 1971". There is one thing patents are usfull for and the German screwed it up.

Btw. I think the first door there has a Mosler 11 based on the size relation with the time lock: https://www.brownsafe.com/categories/an ... _doors.htm (Not endorsing their mumbo-jumbo advertised products.) Based on the size relation with the Mosler 11 I think that door is just 7" or 8" thick (back side of lock to front of door). Damn. That is still to thin for my spindle.

PS: In case you don't need your Rench locks anymore ...
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
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