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S&G 6430, 6435

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MartinHewitt

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Post Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:33 pm

Re: S&G 6430, 6435

I guess this was a LOBC where the locking feature has been removed: http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/Riy ... Gc=/?ref=1
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MartinHewitt

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Post Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:44 am

Re: S&G 6430, 6435

Patent US4275576, Design Grant USD266395

https://patents.google.com/patent/US4275576A Edit: The lock is shown nicely in this patent, but I think there was never a lock matching this patent because the main claim is the bar at the tip of the fence.
https://patents.google.com/patent/USD266395S
Last edited by MartinHewitt on Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:07 pm

Re: S&G 6430, 6435

New question: The patent US4275576 is from 1979 and shows the exact building plan for the 6500 series locks. Mark Bates write that production for these locks started 1956 and I think I have read elsewhere that is was produced for over 50 years. It seems to me unlikely that they show a look in a patent in detail which exists for over 20 years. And I don't think it can be under the same number one of the lyra drive cam locks, which are much older. So what is with the 6530/6535 from 1956 to 1979?

Btw. I think this claim is one of the most ugly sentences I have ever seen:
US4275576 wrote:In a combination lock for bank vaults, safes and the like, a lock case having a tumbler post therein, a pack of tumbler wheels formed of a plurality of selectively adjustable, peripherally gated tumbler wheels loosely journaled for rotation on said tumbler post about a common axis, a peripherally gated rotatable driving cam fixed on a spindle rotatable about said axis, a manually operable dial and knob member on said spindle for rotating the driving cam to angularly adjust the tumbler wheels to an opening combination for the lock, a bolt slidably supported in said case for movement between projected and retracted positions, means providing a lost motion driving connection between the driving cam and tumbler wheels for adjusting the angular positions of the tumbler wheels, and a fence lever having a pivot connection at one end to the bolt for arcuate movement about the axis of said pivot connection and having an opposite end portion forming a fence end adjacent the peripheries of the driving cam and tumblers, the fence lever being movable arcuately between a raised position locating the fence end outwardly of the peripheries of the driving cam and tumblers and a lower position disposing the fence end in the driving cam gate and tumbler gates when aligned therewith for operatively coupling the driving cam with the fence lever to retract the bolt upon rotation of the driving cam in a predetermined direction; the improvement comprising said fence lever having an upwardly arcuately arching body portion extending from the axis of said pivot connection to a position overlying the pack of tumbler wheels and driving cam and a fence formation extending integrally from said arcuate portion downwardly as a foot formation projecting from the arcuate portion a distance substantially corresponding to the radial depth of the tumbler wheel gates and driving cam gate, and said foot formation having a downwardly facing recess spanning most of the lower end portion thereof and having an elongated unitary contact bar member seated therein extending parallel to said common axis and spanning across the periphery of tumbler wheels and the driving cam to normally bear against the non-gated portion of the driving cam periphery and support the fence lever in said raised position, said contact bar member having a bore extending therethrough parallel to said common axis receiving a supporting pin of slightly smaller diameter than the diameter of said bore and supported in opposite side portions of the fence formation flanking said downwardly opening recess occupied by the contact bar, said contact bar member having a pair of lateral sides and a third side facing the tumbler wheels and driving cam and having a fourth side facing upwardly and spaced slightly from a confronting surface of said recess in said fence formation.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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MartinHewitt

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Post Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:03 am

Re: S&G 6430, 6435

Made today a proper slot into the Chubb spindle and mounted it with my 6435. It is very difficult to feel the contact point - not impossible, but very difficult. I guess everything together is really effective, the lever nose wheel, the gears, the springless design and perhaps a more precise wheel pack. But a difficult to feel contact point means that it is rather nice to dial unlike the tomahawk mechanism. Gate width is probably +/- 0.75.

Edit: Maybe gate width is probably rather +/- 1.0. Changing the dialing rotation makes really no difference regarding the wheels. So when all wheels are set to e.g. 50 and the direction is reversed, the gates are again really well aligned. But the gears do have obviously some play which amounts on my lock to 3 numbers. So when the gates are aligned in above example at 50 when turning left, they will be aligned at 47 when turning right.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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MartinHewitt

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Post Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:52 am

Re: S&G 6430, 6435

I think under good conditions the 6435 can be manipulated. A gate indicates by an eighth of a number. The conditions I have here are a very smooth turning and well aligned Chubb dial and a contact mike.

PS: This lock does have a forbidden zone too. The problem is not that W4 and drive cam jam, but that the drive cam doesn't lift the lever out of the gate before W4 turns to far. So it can be opened without any problem, but it can't be locked again afterwards. I can't say where exactly this area is, because the Chubb dial has an empty area and is hence more like a 120 number dial. Also I might have milled the notch not that precisely aligned.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:14 pm

Re: S&G 6430, 6435

Opened the 6435 in 5 1/2 hours.

Can someone borrow me a vault door to mount my 6435 to see if it is also possible there?
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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MartinHewitt

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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:19 pm

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Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:33 pm

Re: S&G 6430, 6435

Second opening took 3 1/2 hours.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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