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Criminal Statistics

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MartinHewitt

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Post Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:52 pm

Criminal Statistics

I looked through all German police press releases 1st to 24th of this month where a safe was involved. 111 cases total. Made for you four pie charts. Where tools to open safes were mentioned it was most of the time something to pry the safe open. In 5 cases were angle grinders involved - not all burglaries with this tool were successful though. Robberies were only in shops.

From this it seems that if you have a good, basic safe which is really well anchored to a wall you are safe from 95% of all burglaries.

Any personal experience?
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MHM

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Post Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:29 pm

Re: Criminal Statistics

Yep. I've asked both a cop and a locksmith about this in the past and they both said they'd never, ever seen a safe lock manipulated or picked. It's destructive entry every time. By far the criminal's favourite strategy is to target a safe that can be physically removed off site and then hit with grinder / gas axe / crowbar at leisure in some secluded spot, then dumped.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:54 pm

Re: Criminal Statistics

And because somebody in another forum asked... My definitions:

Success: The safe was opened or carried away. It doesn't matter if there was anything of value in the safe.
Failure: The safe stayed on the premises and was not opened. It doesn't matter if the safe was moved on the premises or if anything else was stolen.

Gas axe or explosives were never mentioned for on-site attacks. Maybe a search for "safe" doesn't find "ATM" crime where explosions are known. Gas axe might be only used for off-site attacks due to weight.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:15 pm

Re: Criminal Statistics

Yup. A quick search for ATM found mostly attacks with explosions. Where known induced always by gas. Sometimes just brute force. One successful opening mentions "heavy prying tools and splitting maul".

But ATMs are not our problem.
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L4R3L2

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:15 am

Re: Criminal Statistics

With that proportion of "success" in private safe burglaries, why go to the expense of even buying one?
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MartinHewitt

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:46 am

Re: Criminal Statistics

Maybe the success rate is so high because private safe owners buy cheaper metal boxes than businesses? I don't have any data about the safe quality in these press releases, so it is just a guess.

Maybe the success rate is so high because private safe owners are really lazy with bolting their safes down? 81% of all private owned safes are carried away, while only 52% of all company owned safes are carried away. Either they are more lazy or cheaper safes can be ripped more easily from the wall.

My conclusion is: Get a safe which is robust enough to withstand an attack with two pry bars and then bolt it down as good as possible and some more.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
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MartinHewitt

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:52 am

Re: Criminal Statistics

Here are the pie charts for the successful openings.
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Oldfast

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Post Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Criminal Statistics

Was looking this over last night. Found it very interesting indeed.

Thanks for compiling the data and presenting it in an easy format.

So, 111 total cases involving a safe. Does this seem like a lot?
But a month... and of course this covers a very large area, no?
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MartinHewitt

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Post Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:15 pm

Re: Criminal Statistics

I have from 1st to today in November now 139 safe related crimes. If I search for burglary and gun (most of the gun reports are robberies, but not all, which does not really matter due to the low number of gun incidents) I get 1500 press releases. So nearly 10% are with safes. I believe these are not all as I could not find the burglary from my safe opening no.3 on this website. I also can't say if these are many burglaries for 80 million people.

Do you have statistics for the US? Or are there some for UK?
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
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Oldfast

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Post Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: Criminal Statistics

MartinHewitt wrote:.....Do you have statistics for the US? Or are there some for UK?

I don't, but I'll look into it and report back if I find anything definitive.
I'm not much of an 'investigator', but I'll try. I think it'd be interesting
to see what my state (Michigan) looks like, or even the US as a whole.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:35 pm

Re: Criminal Statistics

Oldfast wrote:
MartinHewitt wrote:.....Do you have statistics for the US? Or are there some for UK?

I don't, but I'll look into it and report back if I find anything definitive.

If you find something which needs to be searched like these press releases I can do that work.

Btw. I wrote "139 safe releated crimes". It was actually "139 crime related safes". In some crimes were two safes involved which I counted separately as I want to get information about the resistance of safes and not the crime rate of Germany.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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MartinHewitt

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Post Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Criminal Statistics

https://translate.google.de/translate?s ... %2F2728531 (Translation by Google!)

From manufacturer, size and weight this can be only a grade 1 safe. The MTD 36 for 1700 Euro: https://www.burg.biz/p/tresor-safe/wert ... uehrung-s/ (Don't know about the lock, but it doesn't matter.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyRZh1sdi2Y

For all these not familiar with European safe standards: That is what is necessary in Germany for guns and for narcotics. It would probably be a high-end safe for home-owners, because they are not cheap and with grade 2 the safes start to get heavy. For business-owners this would be more like an entry level.

So in this case it was easier to rip the safe from the wall with prying tools and to carry it (130kg) away than to open the safe with their prying tools. This safe comes with a stud bolt compliant to standard's requirements tested for 50kN force (roughly 5 tons). One anchoring hole in the bottom and one hole in the back. It would be really interesting why the anchoring failed. Crumbling wall? User error in mounting? Failed standard?
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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L4R3L2

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Post Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:58 am

Re: Criminal Statistics

I understand how successful manipulations of mechanical locks in burglaries would be a rarity, but what about the bypassing of electronic locks?
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:38 am

Re: Criminal Statistics

I guess it has never happened in normal burglaries. My vision from a normal burglar is: Basic knowledge about safes and not wanting to have special safe opening tools with him in case he gets checked by police.

There are a few really targeted and planned burglaries where the situation is different, e.g. a few years ago the spectacular, quick burglary at a jeweler where they blew the safes up successfully. These guys use special tools and if the targeted safe has a bypassable electronic lock and they know that this is the case and they can get the tools, then they probably will do it. It might still never happened so far because there are not that many bypassable electronic safe locks and all the conditions must be satisfied.

PS: https://translate.google.de/translate?s ... erlin.html
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:12 am

Re: Criminal Statistics

I searched a bit and found in UK only police news on who got convicted (with photo), but not what happened.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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