.:: Keypicking :: Anything And Everything For Locksmiths, Hobbyist Lock Pickers, Locksport, Lock Picking, lockpicks, cutaways and Security. Simply The Best Lockpicking Forum Around!

I couldn't figure out posting pics so I just linked a Google doc instead. Hope that's all right. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PHM ... p=drivesdk

Thanks,
Daro

Wheel shadowing.

With "Post Reply" you geht somewhere down the tab "Upload Attachment". There you can attach pics.

Did you amplify all three possible locations to see if they really look like gates and if so where the exact center is?

And if all three look like gates, why not trying all possible combinations (6!) to see of they open the lock?

Wheel Shadowing looks like it is all over the place trying find an original discussion post on the topic. How can all 3 gates show on one run if I'm parking a wheel and it's gate elsewhere?

I did magnify 18, 51, and 58 and all seemed like gates and tried all permutations but that wasn't fruitful since the final combo was 58 - 68- 11.

The 3330 is probably the most complex lock of these which do not have manipulation protection measurements. The eggness of the wheel depends on code, position, direction and perhaps other things. Manipulation is the optimize the lever position, i.e. to find the absolute lowest position while accepting local minima. With 18/51/58, I would have made these 6 possible combinations. When the lock did not open I would have use the lowest position of these. If you change direction from AWR to L-R-L you must not forget to correct the number for direction change. The offset is somewhere between +0.5/+1.0/+1.5 and +1/+2/+3. So changing from 18 on W1 from R to L means you go to 18 and then between 1.5 and 3 further. You should test this on your lock. Turn all wheels R (or L) to exactly e.g. 50. Then switch direction, dial to 50 and feel where W3 picks up, then make another round and feel where W2 picks up, and then W1. Starting from the above determined best position I would start to optimize each wheel on its own.

Or a different strategy: AWL 51 is the lowest, so this could be used for further optimization. Go with AWL to 51, move W3 right to 51 or 50 and graph from there W3 left around. With the best position there graph W2 right, i.e. with W1@L51.

Oldfast does a great job of explaining the LaGard wheel float, which is what's giving you all these problems here: viewtopic.php?p=111812#p111812
Follow the rest of that thread to see some of my own experiments showing the differences you'll see spinning different directions. The wheels in the LaGards aren't out of round so much as they are just sloppy on the spindle, so they can shift around as they're turned one way or the other and rise above to shadow other wheels, or fall below other wheels and be shadowed. Try doing both an AWL graph and then an AWR graph and you may find a significant difference in what shows up.