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Yale OC5, or 0402?

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:21 pm
by L4R3L2
I just read that the 0402 is just a miniature version of the OC5 (by the way, is it properly OC5, or OC-5?). I assumed my Yale was an OC5, but it's pretty small. The box measures about 1.85" x 2.5". Is this an OC5 or an 0402?

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Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:17 pm
by Riyame
Post some pictures of the back and internals.

Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:44 pm
by MartinHewitt
I would say it is a 0402 because the bolt looks rather large compared to the lock body, but more photos are better.

Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:25 pm
by L4R3L2
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Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:31 pm
by L4R3L2
Well, I guess that settles that? The inside of the body is stamped 0402. I didn't even notice that before while cleaning, I guess because I assumed it was an OC5, and didn't have any other model committed to memory. So, does that clinch it?

How much larger is the OC5? Are there differences in the internal configuration other than size?
Also, would the OC5 typically use a larger dial, or was this size and style of dial shared just as much between the OC5 and 0402? (The dial is 2 inches)

Thank you.

Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:58 pm
by MartinHewitt
From what I see in the McOmie book both have the same diameter wheels, but the OC5 has hand-change and a larger case (30%) where the wheels are not as much squeezed in.

Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:06 am
by Oldfast
Another beautiful lock to add to your collection there Terry!
You'll have to let us know how your spin-session goes with this one.
Personally, I'm rather fond of these locks and Yale's innovative friction-fence.

Ya definitely have an 0402. As you seen (after the fact, lol) stamped on the bolt.
Also notice there's juuust enough room within the lock case to fit the drive cam.
As you said, the 0402, for the most part, is simply a smaller version of the OC5.

Most of the time I don't know much about age/history, but I've always read that
the OC5's were produced for about 20 years, from 1930-1950. So if you see one,
and know it's original to the box it's on, you can assume the safe is somewhere
around 70-90 years old.

Some OC5's had relockers. You'll feel/hear this through the dial @ about 50.
Don't mistake this for a contact point. Instead, it's pretty safe to assume
CP will be found around zero, as Yale was pretty consistent about this.
I'm assuming (but dunno for a fact) that relockers were not installed
in the 0402, simply due to the lack of space within the lock case.

Oh, you asked about dimensions... OC5 lock case: about 2.25" by 3.25".
The drive cam in both locks appear to be of the same diameter. The 0402,
however does have a smaller fence/gear assembly. Mechanically though,
they're basically identical. On the dials: I know both locks will except the
full size dial... whether or not there's a smaller version... I don't know.

Have fun with this one my friend!

Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:49 am
by L4R3L2
Oldfast wrote:You'll have to let us know how your spin-session goes with this one.
Personally, I'm rather fond of these locks and Yale's innovative friction-fence.


I don't know, Mike. I mean, even knowing where the contact point is, and knowing the combination beforehand, I'm unable to detect a consistent enough change in the contact point, if any, from which to deduce a combination number. Even though it is unmounted, the dial ring is rigidly attached to the spindle tube, so that's not the problem. The problems, as far as I can tell, are due to the drag and uneven feeling imparted by the gear drive, and the teensy dial. It's difficult to even find the precise contact point, let alone reading a minute difference on that little dial, as I'm sure you know. Have you been successful manipulating one of these?

As for the dial, I would assume this dial is the small one.

Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:50 am
by MartinHewitt
You should try a contact microphone. In some cases it is really necessary.

Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:26 am
by Visitor
A microphone for some locks is almost a nessacity and a very good suggestion.

Somthing else I believe you should try is a wasp by Leroy Edenburn. Unfortunately Leroy passed away so you can't buy one but you can make one.
Hawley locks sold a copy for a while but stopped years ago.

It's basically a set of rings that fit different locks, choose the one that fits your dial, slip it over and nip it up, you then have a thin rod that you can screw into the side of these rings. The rod has a weight that can be secured at any point along the rods length altering how much force is put on the dial.
The idea is you find the contact point then slide the weight along the rod until it offers the right fulcrum to stop and rest on it, once you get this balance you can repetitively and quickly turn and find the contact point every time.
The rod can have a point in the end and a sticker put on the box door to mark your scale, the rod obviously amplifies the readings making it a very useful tool.

Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:44 am
by Oldfast
I've opened the small handful of OC5's that I've encountered so far...
but to be fair, I've NOT spun an 0402. It's quite possible the smaller
fence and smaller dial could pose some difficulties.

Friction fence locks are a different ball game for sure. But they're
well worth your time in getting acquainted with 'em, as they open
the door to many other 'oldie-but-goodie' locks! The OC5, in my
opinion, is a nice intro to the difficult 'oldies' to come - much like
the S&G 6730 serves as an intro to learning manipulation.

As Martin & Visitor mentioned, I too would recommend getting an amp.
And not necessarily for just this lock - but just in general - you're going
to want one. It doesn't have to be a high-end one to be affective either.
$100-150 will get ya a perfectly decent amp. Sometimes an amp can be
useful... other times it's absolutely crucial for an opening.

I'm no authority on friction fences, lol... a handful of locks is practically
no experience at all. But I'm more than happy to tryn' convey what I do
know of spinnin' em. Mount yours up, give it a good spin session, and we
can always talk more about it if you'd like.

L4R3L2 wrote:As for the dial, I would assume this dial is the small one.

I guess so then. Of the Yale dials I have here, all measure 2.5"

Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:02 am
by 00247
I hope the OP doesn't think this is a hijack, I think some further discussion on friction fence locks can only help.

Oldfast, have all of the friction fence locks you have manipulated been direct drive? I can't understand how you can get enough feel from the friction fence as it only throws towards the wheel pack in one direction. Can you tell more about it?

The friction fence lock in my National safe has an off set dial which gear drives the wheel pack which then drives the friction fence. It also has the drive wheel for the wheel pack that is slightly larger than the wheel pack so the fence never touches them. Have you seen any larger drive wheels in a direct drive? That and the offset gear drive would seem to thwart the manipulator. But than, I am not a member of that exclusive club.

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Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:14 am
by Oldfast
Yeah, gimme some time... I'll tryn' put into words some of what I've experienced with these locks so far. Just bare in mind(!), I myself still have a long ways to go with 'em. I've had my ass thoroughly kicked by these on more than one occasion - by both direct and geared indirect-drive friction fence locks. Because I'm a little sick in the head, I rather enjoyed it :) ... but that's beside the point, lol. Some of these locks can be a serious endeavor. On the other hand, you'd be amazed at how quickly some of them will roll over. And no two are exactly alike.

In the meantime... on your National; I'm not all that familiar with them, so was curious: Do you have a general idea of the various brands/locks they used throughout their history? This one here looks Yale-made. A Yale 063 1/2 maybe?

Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:08 am
by 00247
Gee Oldfast, I didn't mean to give you homework. lol

It's a 65 1/2 Yale made to work in tandem with the Yale time lock. It is the only one I have seen with the larger drive wheel.

On the Nationals, I have nothing to share. There is very little information on the National Safe and Lock Company available. Even the experts that usually help me out don't have much. I assume they used Yale locks sometimes with their name on the dial as many safe manufactures did. My Moslers are Yale locks branded as Mosler.

Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:17 pm
by Oldfast
00247 wrote:Gee Oldfast, I didn't mean to give you homework. lol

If I wasn't ready for some homework, then what am I doin' here?! lol
Nah, I don't mind at all. Just need to wait for a slow evening here.


00247 wrote:It's a 65 1/2 Yale made to work in tandem with the Yale time lock. It is the only one I have seen with the larger drive wheel.

Well, it's a gorgeous lock. Thanks for putting a name/number to it for me.

The drive cam being larger than the wheels; (I could be wrong) but, I'd say
nearly all friction fence type locks were made with cams that were slightly
larger than the wheels. It has to be in order to keep the fence from riding
against the wheels. Thing is, anytime we see one of these locks nowadays,
it's sure to be very old and very used. This many years slowly reduces the
diameter of the drive cam... sometimes to the point of being the same, or
even smaller than the wheels. This, I think, is why we rarely see a significant
difference between the two. This is also why (and I'll touch on this more later)
it is sometimes possible to actually hear or even feel one or more gates.

00247 wrote:On the Nationals, I have nothing to share. There is very little information on the National Safe and Lock Company available. Even the experts that usually help me out don't have much. I assume they used Yale locks sometimes with their name on the dial as many safe manufactures did. My Moslers are Yale locks branded as Mosler.

In a way, this is kinda comforting and explains why I've been unable to dig
up much dirt on Nationals. On a sidenote: you know what I really miss?...
allexperts com. There was a fella on there by the name of Andy (I think).
That guy was an unbelievable historian on safe companies! What a loss.