Yale OC5, or 0402?

[00247]

On a sidenote: you know what I really miss?... allexperts com. There was a fella on there by the name of Andy (I think).
That guy was an unbelievable historian on safe companies! What a loss.

You said a mouthful there, Oldfast. What a great resource that was and it is a shame the existing information wasn't saved somehow. Terry (Andy) Andreasen and Doug MacQueen provided tons of information about safes on that site. Andy seems to have dropped off the forums probably busy with his security business in California. Doug still hangs around antiquelocks.com now and then.

When I first got interested in safes one turned up on Craigslist. All it said was large old safe, $50. Naturally, I was at the guys place the next day to check it out. I knew it was a strange one but had no idea what I had bought. I posted to allexperts and Andy was amazed at what I had found. It was a very rare 1870's Martin C. Briggs safe which has an expanding door frame to secure the door instead of bolts that throw out. Both Andy and Doug knew about Briggs but had never seen one. Doug was able to provide a artist's drawing of one in an advertisement. Some time later one other Briggs turned up although it was larger and different than mine.

Dumb luck is better than no luck at all!

[00247]

The drive cam being larger than the wheels; (I could be wrong) but, I'd say
nearly all friction fence type locks were made with cams that were slightly
larger than the wheels.

Now that has me wondering... My other Mosler/Yale friction fence locks have an enclosed case. I never paid attention if the drive cam is larger as it is never next to the wheel pack when the pack is out and you can't see inside the lock case when it is in. I never thought to compare them when disassembled. I have a spare one and will take a closer look tomorrow. Now I have homework.

[L4R3L2]

So, here's more information, for the record. The lock in the op is not just an 0402. It is an 0402B, given that it has the bronze case instead of the iron case.

[Oldfast]

Oh, good to know.

[Oldfast]

Gee Oldfast, I didn't mean to give you homework. lol

If I wasn't ready for some homework, then what am I doin' here?! lol
Nah, I don't mind at all. Just need to wait for a slow evening here.

Ok 00247: I know it's late, but I did my homework. lol
If you read closely, you'll notice I've given you some.

[Justasafenut]

Doug is on this forum now. Trying to up my lever keylock picking skills.

[00247]

Doug on this forum? WELCOME! For those who are not familiar with Doug, he is a walking encyclopedia of knowledge about antique safes, vaults, and locks. He has been very helpful directly and indirectly with my safe projects. Now, if Matt Lamborn would start hanging around too, we safe junkies would be in heaven.

[Oldfast]

Doug... what a pleasure, truly, to be able to personally thank you for the immense amount of time, effort, and info that you provided all us laymen with over the years on allexperts. Just as 00247 and I were talking about - it's SUCH a shame all of that has been lost. The history of safes is just so convoluted - companies consuming each other, acquisitions, merges, etc. What a messy tangled web to unravel.

Beyond "can you open it?", the 3 main questions I always get is, "how much does this weigh?", "how old is it?", and "how much is it worth?" NONE of which I can even throw a guess at usually, lol. I have enough trouble learning how to open 'em(!) lol, let alone the history they carry. Anyway, it was always nice being able to browse yours' and Andy's posts on that site to find at least some info to those questions.

So again, thank you for sharing. And welcome!

[MartinHewitt]

Hi Doug! May I have seen you on some other fora? Or where does your fame come from?

[Justasafenut]

Curiosity is mostly responsible for any "fame" I may have achieved. And the 40 plus years in the lock and safe trade. I joined this forum in the hopes of finding info on hi security safe lever keylock picking, but I am not seeing much at all. Am I missing something? Anyway, I have been dialing locks for a long time, however not paying as much attention as I should be, and certainly not as much as some of you guys. Since I still manipulate, I will try to do so in the future. Regarding the friction fence, I recently did a major repair to one, but I can't find the pictures.

[MartinHewitt]

Your mentioning of Curiosity is not really helping me.

I think that there are much fewer people doing lever locks than combination locks, because:

1) We have here a lot of US guys and lever locks are just not as common in the US.
2) Tools, e.g. lathe, required for making tools are often not on hand, which hampers the picking experience.
3) There is much less public information about lever lock picking on the internet.

And these few people who know do discuss lever lock picking, but not publicly. Because of this I do also not discuss it publicly, and esp. not in a Yale OC5 thread.

[Justasafenut]

So it is credentials you desire. Out of the 3 attempts at the National manipulation contest, I placed 2nd in 1986 and 1st place in 2016. Not too shabby but then again I have opened hundreds upon hundreds of safes by manipulation over the years. I was making and selling Hobbs picks with clicker spacing tubes and pointers in the early 1990's. 7 lever S&G Keyop and Mauer and up to 12 lever Mauer Rhenus. The spacing tube clicker was specifically for the Kromer Novum and Convar. Then designed and sold the LaGard 2200 pick made possible by the ball bearing spacer I had designed for the Kromer locks. In the mid 90's I designed and made a custom pick/decoder for the Chubb 6k174 that blows the doors of any pin and cam. I manufacture antique lock parts and keys of all types. I have spent a sizable amount of time taking pictures of the locks at the Mossman collection in Manhatten, the Harry Miller Collection in Kentucky and the Lock Museum in Connecticut. Major time spent collecting U.S. lock patents in the Cleveland library back before the internet existed. Taking loads of pictures at lock and safe collectors homes and shows. Spent several years doing bank service and collecting antique vault door pictures. And finally sharing much of this information on All experts and the Antique locks forum. So as you can see I am hardly a beginner at this. So what are your credentials Martin?

[MartinHewitt]

It is not credentials I desire. I desire to understand the background of Oldfast's reaction. My credentials? What I want to say publicly is mostly here in this forum.

[Justasafenut]

Then maybe you should direct your question to Oldfast. I think I am done here.

[Oldfast]

Not trying to play 'mediator', lol... well maybe a little...
but it could just be a language barrier here? Not sure.

And yes, I suppose we're getting off topic, sorry OP (Terry)

.....I desire to understand the background of Oldfast's reaction.

So Martin, the website we're referring to... allexperts . com was a website that was recently shut down. The site covered an enormous array of topics, from religion, to dog training, to safes... you name it. Experts from all over the world in their respective fields would voluntarily give of their time to answer questions. This is how I know Doug (in a roundabout way) and was excited to see him here. He and another gentlemen by the name of Andy covered a lot of ground and information on that web site. Again, it's unfortunate the info wasn't somehow saved. There must've been literally millions of answers in thousands of different fields. Really a loss.