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What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

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L4R3L2

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Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:48 am

Post Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:29 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

I've discovered that the change key I found in the safe was a bigger bonus than I first thought.

In the recent past, I came to find out that the change keys for the C87, M6730MP, and the R6730 were all slightly different. I worked around the differences on the C87 and M6730MP by modifying standard R6730 3-wheel U-8 change keys.

Notice the key on the bottom. That is the change key I found in this safe having the M6730 lock. The key on the top is a standard R6730 key (U-8). Notice the slightly different lengths on the working ends, and the fully machined notch on the key I found. It makes all the difference. The older, brass cases were dimensioned slightly different than the more current designs.

So, now I have the proper key for the C87 and M6730, but this key did not properly fit the M6730MP.
Image
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:00 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

Was just looking over all this again. A nicely executed spin, really.
And a great score too, for what I'm assuming was a pretty damn
good deal. The lock and dial both look to be in great condition.
(And yeah, the change keys sweeten the pot for sure:)

Also, I share in your excitement about it being the first actual safe!
After spinning within my home for some years, I remember just
how exciting it was for me when I began working on some
locks that were actually attached to a box.

L4R3L2 wrote:. . . . But, this safe is complete as a stand-alone unit, having the inner tube already encased by a layer of concrete and another heavy steel outer tube. What is the purpose of this? What applications is this type of safe used for? Is it still designed to go in-floor?

I'm not sure either. I've been unable to find any info on the 'Lok-Tite Co.'
My guess... I'd call it what it seems to be: a fire-resistant floor safe. lol
Entirely possible some floor safes were made with fire-resistant properties.

L4R3L2 wrote:. . . . I found the contact points at 31 and 41, as the lock was mounted vertical down with a standard spline index. The contact points were pretty weak, but I found them easier to feel with the safe down on its side, gravity helping the fence to drop.

Being a contortionist is sometimes unavoidable (I may have spent more $$
on my lower back than I have on safe-related items now, lol
). But when it
can be helpful for the situation - keep in mind, you can transfer the index.

Here's one I approached last winter and immediately noticed the oddly positioned index at 3:00.
Had it been @ 9, no big deal. But being right-handed, my hand blocks my view of the 3:00 index.

Image

So I align zero with the index then place my wire at 12 o'clock (75). This quarter turn positions
the index for the more normal top view we're use to. After manipulation, I simply transferred
the combination back to the original index @ 3 o'clock for the owner.

. . . Image

There's not much to it, but it's worth spending time with some of your locks to get familiar with this.

Take my scenario here for example; with a new index (and contact point) at around 75... it's possible
now that any of the wheels may contain a gate within or around this area. So, for this entire area...
approaching, through, and beyond... I temporarily take readings using the original 3 o'clock index.
Once past the area of 75ish, I revert back to reading off my wire.

Terry, thanks for sharing this one. I wanna see more, lol. Time for you to go on the hunt again! lol
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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L4R3L2

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Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:48 am

Post Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:48 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

Interesting. So, by your description and dial ring, I assume this Yale was a hand-change friction fence lock? I'm trying to follow what you're saying about a possible gate position at 75, but I don't understand why you couldn't go off of the index you made for the whole spin. Did the owner have you reorient the dial ring when you were done? Seems like a really awkward position for an index. Do friction fence locks also have a "forbidden zone" for the last number?

I couldn't find anything on the Lok-Tite Safe Company either, except for references to this particular one when it was up for sale. Maybe it was one of those fly-by-night outfits. It's too nice to pour concrete around, and then not be able to take her with me if I have to move. Kind of sentimental, too, being my first. It makes a great stool, as long as I don't have to move it!

I didn't originally mean for this acquisition to be a manipulation project. The owner kind of turned it into one for me, which was fine considering the price drop! I'm glad she went to a good home to someone who could lovingly caress her open, rather than violating her with brutal penetration.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4230

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:03 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

With a spring-loaded lever, thoroughly exploring within the contact area is not much of a problem. Even if you're only 1 or 2 incs away from the CP, you can still easily feel it and take a reading. But with a friction-fence lock, you need a bit of a 'running start' for a reading. You don't need a ton of movement, but the dial needs to be turned enough to create the friction that will drive the fence toward the cam and 'test' the wheel pack.

L4R3L2 wrote:Interesting. So, by your description and dial ring, I assume this Yale was a hand-change friction fence lock? I'm trying to follow what you're saying about a possible gate position at 75, but I don't understand why you couldn't go off of the index you made for the whole spin.

Yes, Yale OC-5 with mesh-change wheels.

*Actually, you're right. I wasn't thinking about it correctly. Regardless of where the index is, or which one I read from... I'm still too close to it to take a reading. I guess that's just one of the downsides to a friction-fence lock. Good call. And now you've got me pondering over some other things, lol. Hmmm

L4R3L2 wrote:Did the owner have you reorient the dial ring when you were done? Seems like a really awkward position for an index.

No. They said it had always been that way and had no problems with it. It's strange though. From what I've seen of these, they have a notch on the end of the spindle tube that will only accept the dial ring in 1 of 2 ways; right-side-up, or up-side-down. Anyway, they didn't want it serviced, so I looked no further and I'm not really sure why or how it ended up like this.

L4R3L2 wrote:Do friction fence locks also have a "forbidden zone" for the last number?

Good question. I never really looked into it. I'm gonna have to do some experimenting.
Given the dial needs enough movement to drive the fence toward the wheel pack...
I'm guessing at least some of the numbers could create problems. But we'll see.

And looking into this could help know what we could potentially be missing
when unable to take a reading near the CP. Thanks for getting me thinking!!
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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L4R3L2

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Posts: 70

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:48 am

Post Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:49 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

Oldfast wrote:But with a friction-fence lock, you need a bit of a 'running start' for a reading. You don't need a ton of movement, but the dial needs to be turned enough to create the friction that will drive the fence toward the cam and 'test' the wheel pack.


Ah! I know exactly what you're talking about. Now I understand what you were saying. Thanks.
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MartinHewitt

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Location: Germany

Post Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:58 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

Oldfast wrote:
L4R3L2 wrote:Do friction fence locks also have a "forbidden zone" for the last number?

Good question. I never really looked into it. I'm gonna have to do some experimenting.

The reason for the forbidden zone is that while drive cam and the wheel next to it are linked with the fence and lever together there is the additional link with the pin and fly in this forbidden zone. Due to different diameter and lever form the movement of both connections are different and this creates problems. With the friction fence the drive cam looks like a wheel. So it might be no forbidden zone due to this reason. But the friction fence needs some movement to work. That might be a reason for a forbidden zone in this lock.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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