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What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
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Post Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:38 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

Ha!... we ALL missed it. *shakes his head* lol

And good info on these locks Tarbox.
So let me get this straight in my mind;

The original 6730... that you posted pic of.
Then the M6730... that Terry's dealing with.
And finally, our modern-day R6730.

Right? Or am I still mixed up?
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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MartinHewitt

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Post Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:09 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

That is how I understood it too.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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tarboxb

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Post Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:57 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

Correct Mike. The lock I sent is the original 6730.
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L4R3L2

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Post Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:17 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

Well, I now have this safe in my possession.
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L4R3L2

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Post Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:49 pm

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

So, like I said, I finally got to pick this safe up from the seller. I looked it over during pickup, and noted a spot where it looked like it had been drilled, and talked with the owner a bit about the safe. He offered for me to take it for free, but I gave him a small sum just for holding it for me, and still stuck to my offer to send him the rest of what he had into it if I got it open.

I found the contact points at 31 and 41, as the lock was mounted vertical down with a standard spline index. The contact points were pretty weak, but I found them easier to feel with the safe down on its side, gravity helping the fence to drop.

Preliminary freespinning in the trunk of the car (couldn't wait, lol!) got me what I thought was a gate at around 62 going AWR. High/low indicated the gate on both wheels 1 and 2, but wheel isolation testing showed nothing, as did parking 1 and 2 on 62R and brute forcing wheel 3 . I decided to graph it out once I had more time and a better setup. Also, what I thought was an old drill point was actually just part of the manufacturer's machining.

Manipulating the lock while lying on the floor on my side was different. I used good lighting, a needle index, an Optivisor, and a pillow(!). I could distinctly feel the flies of wheel 2 and 3 picking up 10 units before the wheels picked up. At first I thought this might present a problem, but it turned out the wheels still picked up consistently, so the flies were not actually sticking.

So, with faint contact points (and contact points actually vanishing between 45 and 58 in AWL rotation), draggy flies, and something clanking around inside of this "empty" safe when rolled around, when nothing was showing at first, I was seriously thinking I might be in the market for a 16" screwdriver! The horrible "D-word" was beginning to enter my psyche. Casting that thought aside, I pressed on.

I had to chart the low areas, and park in those areas before gates became plainly visible. But, she eventually yielded, and I got her open. It turned out that the clanking sound was due to a 1/4" thick asbestos plate floor that was loose. There was also a change key inside (yay).
Image

Here is the lock...
Image

The underside of the door, and the bolt...
Image

Something of concern, a cracked bolt. Not a lockout concern as long as the safe can be tipped on its side, though.......
Image

The underside of the lock shows the modifications made to link with the bolt...
Image

Also, in cleaning I found the dial ring is molded with a curb to keep debris out of the locking mechanism. I didn't know they made special rings for floor safes...
Image

And, yes; I did send the seller the check for the balance!
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L4R3L2

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Post Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:23 pm

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

Now, for the process, for those who follow such things.

#1) AWL gave no contact readings between 45 and 58. Possible whisper of a gate at 63, but just coming back into the contact points around 60 left room for doubt.
Decided to map AWR.

#2) AWR gave contacts across all numbers. Still a possible at 61, but nothing definite anywhere. Possible gate also at 28. Lowest areas for both AWL and AWR were between 90-96.

I tried freespinning wheel 3 (right and left) with wheels 1+2 parked at the lowest area of 93. NOTHING, except for a possible dip between 28 and 30 while turning right.

#3) Parked 1 and 2 @ 93L (low area) / 3 AR(26-31) (mapping wheel 3 alone, between 26 and 31 for possible gate. Also notice dip shows at 28 in graph #2. Though I had pretty much dismissed that as a gate location for wheel 3 as it was so close to the edge of the drop-in area, I thought I should check it out any way). Left contact point showed big rise, left showed small dip at 29. I wasn't trusting the left contact point as it was mushy and there was a lot of variation in feel. I was starting to suspect that this lock might better show gates starting from wheel 1's side.
Image

#4) 1 AL / 2+3 @93R(lowest area so far) (mapping wheel 1)
Definite gate found, 1@44.5L

#5) 44.5L / 2+3 AR
Nothing definitive showing.
Image

#6) Decided to park 1 at its gate (44.5), 2 at the low area (95), and map 3 alone.
44.5L / 95R / AL
Found definite gate at 30.

Brute forced for wheel 2, OPENED at 45-62-30
Image

Remember I had done some preliminary freespinning in the car trunk? Here are my scribbled notes from that spin. Notice I suspected 62/63 on wheels 1 and 2, but couldn't verify the wheel or show anything at all during wheel isolation. I also had a feel for something around 28 on wheel 3. Spooooooky!
Image

Any way, it is my first safe opening, and I DIDN'T have to D..D..DRI... awe, I just can't say it. LOL!
Last edited by L4R3L2 on Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:49 pm

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

Great work! You can now mount the safe on a wooden plate and hang it as a trophy to the wall. But be careful with the asbestos!
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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L4R3L2

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Post Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:05 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

MartinHewitt wrote:Great work! You can now mount the safe on a wooden plate and hang it as a trophy to the wall. But be careful with the asbestos!


Thank you. And, which brings up a question I have about this safe.

I've seen in-floor safes that were basically steel tubes or boxes with a heavy door and top plate. I figure they are secured by the concrete poured around them during installation. This makes for a lighter package for shipping, too.

But, this safe is complete as a stand-alone unit, having the inner tube already encased by a layer of concrete and another heavy steel outer tube. What is the purpose of this? What applications is this type of safe used for? Is it still designed to go in-floor?
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:13 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

I don't really know, but maybe a floor safe has been converted to a free standing safe.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:41 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

Great to see you post more on this. Was hoping you would.
Fantastic work Terry! That must've felt pretty damn good!!

You've also done a really nice job of conveying your spin to us.
I appreciate the time you've taken laying it out. I'll definitely
be looking this over a couple more times. Congrats!
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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L4R3L2

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Post Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:51 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

Thank you.

A few things made this manipulation unique to me, other than manipulating a lock on an actual safe/vault.

Lying on my side was a pain. I had to prop myself up on my elbow each time to accurately graph pairs of contact points, and my neck had to be at the right height to read the dial index, which was not the right height for my cervical vertebra alignment. I had to take a break after each graph or two, and make it more than a one day venture.

The contact points being 90-degrees from where I'm used to seeing them.

The contact points disappearing altogether like they did around 45-60 on the left hand rotation. I've never had that happen before. I suppose if a gate had been in that area on the high wheel, I would have felt it right off the bat. But, is anything ever that easy?

The gate on wheel 3 being so close to the edge of the drop-in area (forbidden zone). My left contact point was around 30-31, and the gate was at 30. I've already changed the combination, but why the gate didn't drop upon dialing just past the last number is something I'll have to experiment with. I had to run the drive cam back around a full turn to drop the fence.

Wheel 1 reading first was new to me. I suppose I could have parked wheel 1 at the gate, and wheel 3 at the low area to found gate 2 next, but I decided to reverse that and find gate 3 next, then "brute force" for gate 2.



MartinHewitt wrote:I don't really know, but maybe a floor safe has been converted to a free standing safe.


That's a really good idea. Looking at it though, I don't think that's the case here. Both the inner tube and outer tube share a common base plate (1/2" steel).

Also, the lid (as opposed to the "door") looks professionally made. The pull is nicely recessed (as it would be for a floor safe).
Image
Image

In checking this out, I'm also coming to realize the inner plate of the lid is not steel, as I had supposed. Where the paint is chipped away around the edge, it looks like it's a 1/2" thick asbestos inner insulator plate.
Image
Image
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:05 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

L4R3L2 wrote:A few things made this manipulation unique to me, other than manipulating a lock on an actual safe/vault.

Lying on my side was a pain. I had to prop myself up on my elbow each time to accurately graph pairs of contact points, and my neck had to be at the right height to read the dial index, which was not the right height for my cervical vertebra alignment. I had to take a break after each graph or two, and make it more than a one day venture.

This might be unusual for an actual vault, but awkward positions are not unusual for an actual safe. I consider myself lucky with my last opening where the dial was 60 to 70cm above floor. The previous manipulation candidate where the combination was found after a while was a small safe in a corner under a big table.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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L4R3L2

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Post Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:22 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

MartinHewitt wrote:This might be unusual for an actual vault, but awkward positions are not unusual for an actual safe. I consider myself lucky with my last opening where the dial was 60 to 70cm above floor.


I'd imagine some dials are even lower. Now, that could be hard on the neck if under a tight space like you described. At least with this one where the index had to be to the side for gravity to work on the lever, I could rest my head on a pillow with my head sideways.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:34 pm

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

Btw. I do recommend to connect the dots. Graphs are much better to grasp with lines than with dots.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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L4R3L2

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Post Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:23 am

Re: What am I getting myself into? Lock ID help, please

MartinHewitt wrote:Btw. I do recommend to connect the dots. Graphs are much better to grasp with lines than with dots.


As long as the wheel contours are smooth I don't have trouble reading the dots, and it saves time. If I encounter a lock with wheels that give me large curves or a sawtooth pattern, I would fill in the lines. For clarity when posting graphs on the forum, though, I will complete the lines from here on out. Thanks for the suggestion.
Last edited by L4R3L2 on Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
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