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Help: Click at 97-98 no matter what

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:20 pm
by guard33
Hi
Trying to manipulate an SG6730. I need some help.

There is a Click at 97-98 no matter where the wheels are parked. Stays put in that area in both right and left rotation
what would that be ?

it is a 3 wheel lock and they all rotate free. Graph 1 AWL is showing peeks at 6, 40, 60 and 98. Best reading at 60.
nothing sticking.

Thanks

Re: Help: Click at 97-98 no matter what

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:28 pm
by jharveee
Hi,
What are your left and right contact points. Maybe we can ignore the click at 97-98. Got a photo of your graph? Is your lock on a practice mount or a safe?

Re: Help: Click at 97-98 no matter what

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:43 pm
by guard33
jharveee wrote:Hi,
What are your left and right contact points. Maybe we can ignore the click at 97-98. Got a photo of your graph? Is your lock on a practice mount or a safe?


it is on a safe. Contact point 4 to 14. Graph 1 attached not amplified dialed at 2.5 steps



Check my previous post

viewtopic.php?f=100&t=11568&p=116935#p116935

Re: Help: Click at 97-98 no matter what

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:19 pm
by MartinHewitt
Could it be a left-handed lock? Normally the left contact point is not moving much compared to the right one, but here this is switched.

Re: Help: Click at 97-98 no matter what

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:47 pm
by jharveee
Think I'd park wheels 1 and 2 at R6 and graph wheel 3 around left to see what that produces.

Re: Help: Click at 97-98 no matter what

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:15 pm
by guard33
OK here is 2 graphs

Graph1 1&2@R6/ 3L (dialing wheel 3 left)
Graph1 1&2@R6/ 3R (dialing wheel 3 Right) (almost AWR but 1&2 parked)

the 3rd picture is both graphs side by side

Re: Help: Click at 97-98 no matter what

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:24 am
by jharveee
Two difference graphs, look totally different. As they should, cause you were mapping the wheel pack in different directions. One graph all wheels were together and the other some wheels parked. I would amplify the area around 68(best indication on that graph)IMO. Tag 68 to wheel 3. Next graph would be, Wheels 1 and 2 around right with wheel 3 parked at 68(or true center after amplification).

Re: Help: Click at 97-98 no matter what

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:48 am
by guard33
jharveee wrote:Two difference graphs, look totally different. As they should, cause you were mapping the wheel pack in different directions. One graph all wheels were together and the other some wheels parked. I would amplify the area around 68(best indication on that graph)IMO. Tag 68 to wheel 3. Next graph would be, Wheels 1 and 2 around right with wheel 3 parked at 68(or true center after amplification).



Thansk. will try tomorrow just a note the "AWR" is actually W1&2 parked on R6. just W3 moving

Do you know why 60 is showing up spike?

Re: Help: Click at 97-98 no matter what

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:23 am
by jharveee
If you prefer, use 60 as your best indication, and spin wheels 1 and 2 around right while parking wheel 3 on 60. You have given us usefully information about wheel 3. Now using the low/lowest spots on wheel 3 we move forward on to collecting information about wheels 1 and 2. Once we have the best indications on wheels 1 and 2 we can use them to refine wheel 3 if needed.

Re: Help: Click at 97-98 no matter what

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:20 pm
by guard33
Here is Graph Wheel 1&2 AWR and W3 parked left at 68

The red line is 2 step
the black line is amplified 1 step at a time

92-95 is a gate signature i think. where do you think gate starts at 95 or at 92?
also 77 and 76 shows something but it is too small

Re: Help: Click at 97-98 no matter what

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:03 am
by jharveee
Well, now I'm liking 60. Seems to keep showing up. Think I would park wheels 1 and 2 at right 60 and spin wheel 3 around left. I think this time around you will find a gate on wheel three. Looked at some Dave McOmie books we have at the shop. Couldn't find anything on Cashguard. Google search turned up, Canadian Safe Manufacturing, Hamilton ON Canada. WWW.Canadiansafe.ca. Is this where your safe is from? Model B-2620 looks similar to yours. Perhaps they have your combination, that is if your just wanting to get it opened. Also said they use Sargent and Greenleaf Group 2 locks. Thinking your clicking noise could be from a Group 1 MP lock. Other interesting info, Safe comes with four mounting holes located on the bottom. Are there holes that you can look into?

Re: Help: Click at 97-98 no matter what

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:28 am
by guard33
Thanks for all your help.

This safe is a bit of odd story. I found it on side of road in front of a house slotted for demolition
my guess the owner took it out. Your research is bang on. Company is down the road but I don't think they will help

I don't recall seeing holes under but I will check again

For the 60. It gave very good reading AWL on my very first graph moving only W3 hi lo test showed W3
and the second graph 1&2R and 3L@60 gave drop 95 to 85 with another suspect area around 40. See my first graph

Brute dialing W1-85-60 did not open the safe

I will follow your advice. What is the lock MP1? Dial says SG but I really don't know what is behind the dial

Re: Help: Click at 97-98 no matter what

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:57 am
by jharveee
I was worried that the clicking noise you hear may have been an Accelerator Spring found on (MP) Manipulation Proof locks. But you are able to feel contact points. Noise could be bent spindle as mention before, shifted dial ring or maybe the spine key hits the back on the lock.? I'm hoping Re-graphing wheel 3 using the lowest areas found on wheels 1 and 2 produce a gate that we can be sure of. If there are mounting holes on the bottom of the safe, well it would be possible to see whats inside and maybe even see the Change Key Hole. What are you goals?, Manipulate the safe open, Or just get it opened? I think manipulation seems possible. The graphs look a bit wild for what I'm used to seeing of a S and G 6700 series. May be the bent spindle?. Let's see what the next graph looks like.

Re: Help: Click at 97-98 no matter what

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:57 pm
by jharveee
guard33 wrote:Thanks for all your help.

This safe is a bit of odd story. I found it on side of road in front of a house slotted for demolition
my guess the owner took it out.


One question:
Are you the owner of this safe?

Re: Help: Click at 97-98 no matter what

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:35 pm
by guard33
I prefer to manipulate it open so I can pick this hobby. I am in no rush

I am not the original owner. The safe was put on the curb. In front of a house that was slotted for demolition.
I just called the manufacturer and they cannot help me unless I go through a locksmith. They may have the combination. Manufactured in 2004. It is either a 6730 or 6741.

Locksmith reply : This safe left factory without combination. It was set by dealer. It will have to be manipulation