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Cary Safe ID

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tarboxb

Familiar Face

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Post Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:54 pm

Cary Safe ID

Does anyone have any info on this Cary safe? I attempted to manipulate it and am having no luck. The dial is relatively stiff and I cannot seem to find contact points regardless of what I do. It is not a direct entry fence either. I have attempted to tap the dial ring, lubricate the dial, smack the front of the safe to free a sticky lever, etc. and am having no luck. I would like to learn more about the safe to see if I can get any useful info but cannot identify the lock. I haven't even seen a single picture of a safe with the same style dial. Any ideas?

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bitbuster

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Post Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:47 pm

Re: Cary Safe ID

I haven't seen that exact dial but it may be a Yale Y-6 lock. Are the hinge blocks on the side of the safe or the front? Can't tell by pic.
"I dream of a world where, chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned."......Ralph Waldo Emerson
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tarboxb

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Post Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:04 am

Re: Cary Safe ID

I honestly can't remember. I feel like it was on the front. The safe isn't here. I will try to get in touch with the owner of it and see if I can find out. I have worked with a friction fence lock, specifically a Yale OC-5 in the past which I was able to successfully open. This doesn't really have that gear drive feel to it but it isn't impossible. The OC-5 I opened was not in particularly good condition and was missing a few components from the wheel pack which is possible part of why it felt so "different."
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tarboxb

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Post Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Cary Safe ID

Also, do you happen to know if it is the Y-6 if the basic footprint is the same as the OC-5 as far as the mounting hole positions relative to the spindle hole?
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bitbuster

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Post Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Cary Safe ID

can't say with any certainty.
"I dream of a world where, chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned."......Ralph Waldo Emerson
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tarboxb

Familiar Face

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Post Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:26 am

Re: Cary Safe ID

It looks like I figured out what it is!!! It's a vintage older style S&G 6730. Check out this page https://www.antique-locks.com/showthrea ... -door-safe where you can see someone else with the same dial. According to the gentleman who responded, David, a lock with a change index 11 numbers to the right is indicative of the old style 6730 shown in the drawings and the owner of that safe confirmed that was indeed what was in the safe! At least now I know what I'm working with!

caryXsafeXlock.jpg

CatalogXpageX1.jpg

OriginalXSXGX6730.jpg
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tarboxb

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Post Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:10 am

Re: Cary Safe ID

Can the dial be removed from these old Sargent and Greenleaf locks with a dial puller from the outside like the newer ones?
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Visitor

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Post Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:33 am

Re: Cary Safe ID

That dial was used on more than one model.
Are you finding the contact point in cw or ccw?
Are you getting contact at 3 when turning cw?
If your getting contact ccw it could be somthing else.
There's also an m16 which has a relocker (it's ok, it won't fire) or an oc5 that use the same dial.
Drilling involves going through the dial so it's not nice looking afterwards. If you have a small 90' scope and want the drill point I'll pm it.
The direction of rotation you find the contact point at is also the direction the last wheel to drive the bolt will turn.

Treat as a normal y6 and you'll be ok.
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tarboxb

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Post Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:16 pm

Re: Cary Safe ID

Hi Visitor. So you aren't convinced it's the Sargent and Greenleaf. I have seen multiple sources now claiming that it's identified by the ring with a change index 11 numbers to the right of the opening index which this one is. Also, it definitely does not feel like a gear lock. I habe successfully manipulated a Yale OC-5 and know what they feel like. I was unable to find anything I was convinced was a contact point after several hours of "manipulation." The dial is just too sticky to be confident in much. I do believe "alternative" options are in order and am confident I have determined the relevant position for the Sargent and Greenleaf lock under the dial ring assuming that the dial can be removed from the outside. Any thoughts?
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Visitor

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Post Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:56 pm

Re: Cary Safe ID

If you can't find the contact point it's going to be a bit harder to id it.
It could actually be anything retro fitted.
I'm not at home right now so can not check your s&g measurements but they seem ok if you have your orientation right.
I would be surprised if it's not a y6
I'll send you a pm in a moment, my email is playing up.
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tarboxb

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Post Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:09 pm

Re: Cary Safe ID

Hi Visitor. Thank you for getting back to me. You do make a good point that it could be anything retrofitted in there. Of course there is only so much we can figure out but I have experience with the OC-5 as stated previously and I am fairly confident I would know if it were a gear driven friction fence style lock.
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Visitor

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Post Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:27 am

Re: Cary Safe ID

No worries, I can only speak from experience, you're at the box so are in a better position than I am.
Good luck, I look forward to your open pics :)
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tarboxb

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Posts: 197

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Post Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:54 am

Re: Cary Safe ID

Sounds good! Thank you for your assistance! This is the first safe other than a Group 2M I have been unable to manipulate and it's a bit frustrating frankly. :P
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:22 pm

Re: Cary Safe ID

Hey Brandan. I know you and I had talked about this and I wasn't much help.
I've since come across an article I didn't see on my first round of research.
According to this article, I'd say you've identified the lock correctly.

It came out in the mid-1920's and they refer to it as the "original 6730".
The dial you have (along with the pics in the article) matches up with
this lock. They too make mention of the change index - approximately
11 incs right of the opening index.

However, lol, there's another lock that could be paired with this dial.
Around the same time, Sargent & Greenleaf released their C87 lock.
Identical to the one you've pictured... but with an added feature to
to the fence that adds some level of manipulation resistance.

"This lock appears to have some kind of manipulation-resistance feature built in -
it doesn't allow the fence to contact the wheels or driver except around the
drop-in point, and then only if several wheel gates are properly aligned.
"

Hope this helps... though I suspect I've only added
another layer of doubt for you as you proceed. lol
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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tarboxb

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Posts: 197

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Post Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:15 pm

Re: Cary Safe ID

Thank you for getting me this info, Mike! It's very helpful indeed. I wonder if maybe that's why I'm not feeling contact points? I think this one needs to have the word that starts with d and rhymes with krill done to it.

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