.:: Keypicking :: Anything And Everything For Locksmiths, Hobbyist Lock Pickers, Locksport, Lock Picking, lockpicks, cutaways and Security. Simply The Best Lockpicking Forum Around!

I'm new into the art of manipulation of combination locks, and I have just started on a couple of old S&G 6730's.

I bought some NL redundant locks ( I believe they are marketed in the US as LP locks, Loss Prevention), and to my understanding the man behind the NL locks of the Netherlands (Nick Gartner) was the prior owner of La Gard.

One of the LG's is a swingbolt, the other a deadbolt. The deadbolt version is much thicker than standard, and will have installation issues in some containers.

Anyway, these locks was not purchased to manipulate, but to replace the locks on my gun safes. My country requires gun safes that are more like the US TL-15 ratings, and the locks also have to be certified. Thus the Securam Xtreme that I also bought, could not be used as it had slipped my attention that the mechanical side of this redundant lock is not certified at all. The certification they boost are only relevant for the electronic side of the lock. Questionable marketing in my opinion. No dual lock is more safe than that of the weakest lock provided.

The NL's:


I'm not an expert so take my comments as my newbee understanding of how this works.



I think the pivot locker will get into play when excessive pressure is applied to the boltwork, like smashing the opening handle. The swingbolt will then pivot and lock into the "gears" machined to the case and the swingbolt. That would be a safeguard to safes with inferior boltwork that does not provide a break pin or clutch drive if subjected to brute force.






I find it strange that this is a 2M rated lock. Most 2M locks will have an extra arm inside that lifts the nose away from the cam until it is over the drop-in point, keeping it from being able to touch the contact points and disallowing measurements like you'd get on a Group 2. This lock has no such contraption. Never the less, I tried measuring change in contact points while gate was over a combination dial, but could not read any differences. I don't know how this is done, as it seems the fence is riding the wheels. Close manufacturing tolerances? Or is it enough to be rated 2M to have 4 wheels vs 3? Someone with more experience, please chime in.

Peek Inside the DUETT:

As for the Securam, I'm going to study if the mechanical lock is all rubbish or not.

But I just love the sturdy look of it, and the mechanical dial It has soo nice and clear readings around the dial. It's a pitty that it is not certified.

Oh nice, I was looking at those Securam locks a little while ago. They are pretty neat. I have never heard of the new ones you bought.

Nice you found it interesting

You might want to watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC1c2xN8DI4

I find redundant locks the best locks nowadays. Every lock is prone to failure, that being electronic or mechanical, but as you double it your are quite safe (pun intended )
And the electronic opening is just so much more convenient in daily use. I will practice the mechanical opening every now and then, just to keep track of the code and dialing procedure. This will not wear out the mechanical lock in a thousand years

Here is the dial of the Securam (note that generous number spacing, really easy to read! ) :


Another issue with the Securam (beside the obvious blunder with the lack of certification of the mechanical part) is that your fingerprints will show on the touchpad. Wipe it, or alernate between two codes that combined uses all of the available numbers. That way code numbers can´t be disclosed.

Thanks for the photos. Can you feel a contact point, wenn you put pressure on the swing bolt? Or could the handle be read like in a direct entry lock?

MartinHewitt No, I can feel no difference.

I had to deploy the locks onto my safes, but I have some more pictures below. (I wonder why the thumbails show the correct way, but when opening the pictures they are sideways or upside down?)







Can the protution on the motorshaft also lock the lever in a position that keeps the fence lifted above the wheels? The nose seem to dive the exact same amount into the drivecam gate, wether a combination gate is present under the fence or not.

Thanks. Now I understand how this works.

Got also the deadbolt version. The mounting of the pinpad/dial unit is not good. Once it is installed it can be removed only with damage. The complete lock has a European certification. The label state also UL Listed 3MXP Type 1. I assume this is just the electronic part. I think all these locks in this thread should be not that difficult to manipulate.

"Once installed, removed only with damage" . I wonder of you got an early version. My lock came with an obsolete instruction that indicated such a fixed installation. Not so with later editions.

Have you tried to manipulate the lock?

And I`m interested in the exact Europeean certification, please.

How is the fixed so that it does not fall out?

As far as I recall, the old model had a spacer to use pre-installation, and it was to be removed when finalising the install, making it a permanent install. This spacer is now redundant, and the spacer is not provided with later models... MBA did contact the manufacturer as I complained over the missing spacer, and they confirmed the instructions was obsolete - no spacer is needed.

On the front side, the dial is held in place only by a latch, the button for the latch is reachable through the battery compartment. The dial as well as the dialpad / whole front unit is easily removed without any damage.

On the back of the lock you insert a plastic plug that prevents the dial shaft from falling out.

I have 4 of these now, and 2 installed for friends, and we have had no problem with them. Only consern is if this 2M rated mechanical 4 wheel lock is not so manipulation resistant as you imply...

That seems to be much better indeed!

Got one of the rotobolt locks. Interesting construction. I noticed, that the gate width is in my lock 3.5. That is quite a lot.

PS: It is probably more like 4 or 4 1/4 for a single wheel. The 3.5 is for the complete wheel pack when all set to 50.

So, you got one! How hard was it to manipulate?

I have not yet manipulated it. It looks quite easy, because the sides of the drive cam gate have a nice angle, but the lever is very jumpy and the graph has large variation.