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Need to ID this S&G

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:27 pm
by MrAnybody
Would really appreciate an ID for this one. I can't work it out from the label, and it's the only pic I have that's got markings.

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Anyone?

Many thanks

Re: Need to ID this S&G

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:26 pm
by Riyame
S&G 6200 Timebination lock. It is a single time delay unit on a 6730 lock. Turning the dial winds the mechanism then you enter the combination, wait the specific time (can be set between 5-30 minutes) and then you turn the dial to retract the bolt. You have I think 1 minute at the specified delay to open the lock or you have to do it all over again. Not sure on this but I think attempting to turn the dial at the wrong time will also reset the timer.

Re: Need to ID this S&G

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:07 pm
by MartinHewitt
This ebay seller has also some other locks. They are all manipulation proof. The might be 8500 series locks. Is there the chance, that this is also an 8500?

Re: Need to ID this S&G

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:10 pm
by Riyame
Doubtful. The cam and lever needs some modifications and there isn't a lot of room for other moving parts.

Re: Need to ID this S&G

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:17 pm
by MartinHewitt
Very good reasons.

Re: Need to ID this S&G

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:40 pm
by MrAnybody
Riyame wrote:S&G 6200 Timebination lock. It is a single time delay unit on a 6730 lock. Turning the dial winds the mechanism then you enter the combination, wait the specific time (can be set between 5-30 minutes) and then you turn the dial to retract the bolt. You have I think 1 minute at the specified delay to open the lock or you have to do it all over again. Not sure on this but I think attempting to turn the dial at the wrong time will also reset the timer.


Got yer. Many thanks, Riy. Much appreciated.

Re: Need to ID this S&G

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:07 pm
by MartinHewitt
Btw. I did offer 25 and the seller just rejected without an own offer. So if you want to offer something you should perhaps offer something higher.

Re: Need to ID this S&G

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:27 pm
by mdc5150
Here are some pics of the time piece.
20180111_075650.jpg

20180111_075836.jpg

20180111_075951.jpg

Re: Need to ID this S&G

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:23 pm
by MartinHewitt
Patent US4359883

Re: Need to ID this S&G

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:51 am
by Riyame
Alright, I did some digging though the stash. I have one of these that was used as a shop display that still works and a couple that are for parts. The display one is S&G from 1995, 2 others are S&G that are much older, and one is a Lagard 3330 with time delay. For the newer S&G ones the correct change key is "U10".

The older S&Gs can only be set for 15, 20, 25, or 30 minute delays while the newer S&G can be set from 5-30 minutes. The newer one also has different modifications to the lever, it has 2 pins instead of 1 in the older models.

The 3 "parts" units
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The Lagard unit
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Mounted to the lock
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On the left side you can see the screws to set the time delay. On the bottom one there is a piece broken off on the middle bottom
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One has a clear window so you can see it working
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Here you can see where there are pins added to the lever and drive cam
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Now for the new one.
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There are different modifications to the new lock since they use a different movement in the time delay. There are 2 different pins in the lever and the one in the drive cam is placed differently.
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The movement. The drive cam pin latches into the hook on the right and the dial winds the movement. Once it gets enough tension the hook pops open and releases the pin. You can see the adjustments for the time delay are quite different as well. IIRC the 2 pins on the lever interact with the part on the right. It blocks the lock until the correct time has elapsed (and POSSIBLY) resets the timer if you try to open it too early. I may be wrong about the last part.
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Re: Need to ID this S&G

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:33 pm
by MrAnybody
Very, very cool pics and write-up, Riy. Many thanks for putting it all together. Great reference.

Re: Need to ID this S&G

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:04 pm
by MartinHewitt
Someone bought the lock in the initial posting. It came a really bungled up lock, an assembly of the time lock case, an 8500 and an opening counter. The buyer returned this mess.

Re: Need to ID this S&G

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:46 pm
by MartinHewitt
Got a photo. Does look quite professionally produced. 8560 Group 1R lock with interface pins on the cam (longer spring lifter) and lever screw. On this lock there is a 8470 Group 1R sticker. Perhaps this guy has different locks and perhaps this is quite an official lock.