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I want to try picking curtained locks. I have here three big Chubb locks - one 6K18 (big brass), one 6K174 (big black) and one I don't have the name (big bare metal sheets). My questions how big the key hole of the safe would be. Would it be tight around the key stem? Or would it be the outer diameter of the curtain? Or even larger?
Re: Big Chubb safe lock key hole question
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:22 am
by Riyame
If you ever want to get rid of that 6K18 let me know
Normally the keyhole of the safe would be the same size or just a hair larger than the key hole in the lock itself.
Re: Big Chubb safe lock key hole question
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:52 am
by MartinHewitt
My 6K18 is not as fancy as this. You would be disappointed.
So I should assume that I don't have the gap in the curtain available for the pick "stem".
Re: Big Chubb safe lock key hole question
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:46 am
by MartinHewitt
As I have here this thread open ...
I could not find any model number for this lock made from sheet metal. Any idea? The false gates are of the 6K174 type.
Any idea on dating the three locks? From the workmanship my guess is that the 6K18 is the oldest followed by the 6K174.
Re: Big Chubb safe lock key hole question
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:03 am
by Jaakko Fagerlund
MartinHewitt wrote:So I should assume that I don't have the gap in the curtain available for the pick "stem".
You have exactly the shape of the key bit + stem of room. The first 8 seconds of the video shows the keyhole and that's the space you have. A round place for the stem and an elongated slot for the keybit. So your tool can be the size of the key blank, maximum.
Re: Big Chubb safe lock key hole question
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:32 am
by MartinHewitt
The video does not answer my question. If I turn the curtain its slot moves. Then I have in a standalone lock as an opening the hole for the stem and the the small space of the slot in the curtain. If this lock would be built into a safe do I have frontal access to this slot or just to the hole of the stem? (The slot for the key bit is at this moment not interesting anymore.) The slot in the curtain is just a tiny hole, but it might still make a big difference on how to bend the wire.
Attached a photo and marked the space in which I am interested.
Re: Big Chubb safe lock key hole question
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:55 pm
by Riyame
MartinHewitt wrote:My 6K18 is not as fancy as this. You would be disappointed.
So I should assume that I don't have the gap in the curtain available for the pick "stem".
The one in the video was a stock 6K18 until it was cut away and embellished. Still a neat lock though.
MartinHewitt wrote:As I have here this thread open ...
I could not find any model number for this lock made from sheet metal. Any idea? The false gates are of the 6K174 type.
Any idea on dating the three locks? From the workmanship my guess is that the 6K18 is the oldest followed by the 6K174.
Perhaps posting some pictures of the outside and inside of the lock would help in identifying it.
Re: Big Chubb safe lock key hole question
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:20 pm
by MartinHewitt
Here it is.
Re: Big Chubb safe lock key hole question
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:57 pm
by Jaakko Fagerlund
MartinHewitt wrote:The video does not answer my question. If I turn the curtain its slot moves. Then I have in a standalone lock as an opening the hole for the stem and the the small space of the slot in the curtain. If this lock would be built into a safe do I have frontal access to this slot or just to the hole of the stem? (The slot for the key bit is at this moment not interesting anymore.) The slot in the curtain is just a tiny hole, but it might still make a big difference on how to bend the wire.
Attached a photo and marked the space in which I am interested.
Ah, now I see what you wanted In the 10 second mark you can clearly see that little gap above the keystem, so I would assume no, it is not available from outside a safe.
Re: Big Chubb safe lock key hole question
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:41 am
by MartinHewitt
Yes, it can be closed in a safe, but it doesn't have to be. See the attached example how wide open the key hole in that safe is. Here I would have full frontal access to this curtain gap.
Re: Big Chubb safe lock key hole question
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:01 pm
by capt-dunc
as for as i know only one person has ever picked (as opposed to decoding a 6k174) and it was done with a wire tool.
this is something that i've been working on doing. i assumed that the key guide is larger than the curtain's inside measurement to allow for ease of use day to day. but i've made sure that my pick fits straight into the keyway, and stays straight as if it was needing to go 4-5 inches deep, and work without any skewing or corkscrewing approaches to getting under levers. i've got a working tool, it should reach everywhere and i've checked that with a borescope, but it's a pig to pick and i've lost track of how many hours have gone into this (even with a partial decode or watching the levers move into position with a video feed). it feels do-able, but it combines the worst elements of pick several locks into the one. the end game feels like dealing with a 6 lever tann, and the false gates are very aggressive.
if you want to pm me to chat pick design, feel free. i'm not putting my design thoughts out on the web because of the high end nature of this lock in the uk
Re: Big Chubb safe lock key hole question
Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:44 am
by MartinHewitt
The metal sheet type seems to be referred to as "TDR". I think this is really a safe type, but perhaps the lock was only used in that type of safe and so it got its name.
Re: Big Chubb safe lock key hole question
Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:51 pm
by safecracker33
Your lock is still a 6k18 just like the brass one (I assume, not seeing a picture of it), just a later version that was cheaper/easier to manufacture than the nice brass one. TDR is a range of safes from chubb and also a name of one of their barrier materials Torch and Drill Resisting
Re: Big Chubb safe lock key hole question
Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:29 pm
by MartinHewitt
That could be. Will make photos, when I have both locks at hand. Thanks.
Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:32 pm
In the 10 second mark you can clearly see that little gap above the keystem, so I would assume no, it is not available from outside a safe.