FAQ  •  My feedback  •  Feedback
UKLockpickers.co.uk Lockpicking supplies such as Lockpicks, tools, and more! COMMANDOLOCK.COM Military grade padlock systems lockpickshop.com A source for lockpicking supplies such as lockpicks, locksmith tools, and more!

Old Safe / New Dial

<<

jharveee

Prolific Poster

Posts: 825

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:14 pm

Location: San Marcos, Ca.

Post Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:22 pm

Old Safe / New Dial

VicGard1.JPG
VicGard2.JPG
VicGard3.JPG

I'm hoping someone can tell me about what brand safe this is and what the original lock is.
I think the old lock is still inside and just the dial and dial ring were switched.?
I don't know, maybe the lock is also new? What lock would go to the new dial?
The dial spins poorly, wobbles and rubs. Can't find contact point(s).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
<<

bitbuster

Active Member

Posts: 694

Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:03 pm

Location: NW Wis

Post Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:22 am

Re: Old Safe / New Dial

Can't name safe maker. The lock dial appears to be a LaGard.
"I dream of a world where, chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned."......Ralph Waldo Emerson
<<

Oldfast

User avatar

OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4137

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:51 am

Re: Old Safe / New Dial

Well damn, I was gonna say we'll have to wait to see if bitbuster can place it.
After looking for some time through my files, I can't confirm much either.

As you mentioned, suppose the only thing new on that safe is the dial?...
along with not knowing the safe maker, it's even more difficult to say
what could be lurking on the other side of that door.

No doubt you've already tried the handle and received no feedback.

The contact area - you cannot locate. You tried an amp yet? I've been runnin' into
a lot of very old locks recently and find that an amp is almost mandatory with some.
You may have to manipulate for a contact point before you can start manipulating. lol
And again, IF the dial is coupled with an old lock - the contact area could be anywhere.
So be sure to explore the entire dial with each reading.

A measurement (center-to-center) from handle to dial, along with close-up photos of
the hinges and especially the wheels may be useful for someone else in helping you
identify this one. I don't think it'll help me dig up anything more though.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
<<

GWiens2001

User avatar

Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

Posts: 3552

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:05 am

Location: Arizona, United States

Post Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:18 am

Re: Old Safe / New Dial

Looks like a turn-of-the-century HHM (Herring Hall Marvin) safe to me, missing the finials. But am not an expert on these. Would have to dig through the books.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
<<

GWiens2001

User avatar

Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

Posts: 3552

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:05 am

Location: Arizona, United States

Post Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:24 am

Re: Old Safe / New Dial

This HHM look close enough to you, at least enough to think I'm on the right track? Did a quick Google search for HHM safe.

Image

Gordon
Last edited by GWiens2001 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:33 am, edited 3 times in total.
<<

jharveee

Prolific Poster

Posts: 825

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:14 pm

Location: San Marcos, Ca.

Post Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:05 am

Re: Old Safe / New Dial

VicGard4.JPG
VicGard5.JPG
VicGard6.JPG
VicGard7.JPG

Thanks for all the input!
Lets see, putting pressure on the handle does nothing. no lock up or feedback.
I was thinking Lagard dial attached to Yale lock on a Victor safe.?
Finials. Now that you mention them, I seem to recall wondering why the hinges had deep holes on the tops of them.
I had taken photos with the tape measure before going home. I can always get more if needed.
The absence of contact points, could be my lack of skill in finding them. The dial flops, drags and rubs.
I have an OC-5 Yale practice lock and a Lagard 3330. What I now feel, is most like the Yale. I have one point of interest at 63 which makes no sense to me. I would like to be able to rule out Lagard 2M. I have a cheap contact amp purchased off E-bay similar to the one MBA has on there website. What am I "Hearing" for?
I can feel and hear 3 wheels pick up. Thanks
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
<<

MartinHewitt

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 665

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:19 pm

Location: Germany

Post Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:55 am

Re: Old Safe / New Dial

Would the threading of a modern dial fit into an old cam?

I think you should be able to feel a La Gard tomahawk / fence lever control device lock by the higher turning resistance in one area. The S&G 6630 is also a 2M lock, but with a nose roller. Feeling the contact points is very difficult there. Hearing is easier.

PS: If the problem is the contact between dial and dial ring you might break away some of the dial ring.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
<<

jharveee

Prolific Poster

Posts: 825

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:14 pm

Location: San Marcos, Ca.

Post Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:59 am

Re: Old Safe / New Dial

Gordon, the handle on that HHM safe is a dead ringer.

Martin, it may come to a point where the dial and ring are removed; not there yet.

Monday, in my free time I will start going through all the books to if I can figure it out.
Thanks
<<

00247

User avatar

Familiar Face

Posts: 109

Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:04 am

Location: Wisconsin

Post Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:29 pm

Re: Old Safe / New Dial

Never say never but I'm quite sure it is not a Victor. I don't believe Victor ever had a screw in the center of the handle. The shape of the handle is not correct either. That shape with the small diameter of the knob portion and center screw should be a major clue as to the brand.
It is time... stand up for a constitutional America. Without it, we have shed blood in vain.
<<

GWiens2001

User avatar

Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

Posts: 3552

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:05 am

Location: Arizona, United States

Post Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Old Safe / New Dial

jharveee wrote:Gordon, the handle on that HHM safe is a dead ringer...
Thanks


As are the casters (wheels) for shape, size, drilled holes and construction. The shape of the wheel supports, except for the small extra cutout on the top center parts just before they attach to the body of the safe looks quite similar as well. The hinges look pretty close, too. Hard to tell from the picture I found since it is so small. Blowing it up loses details.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
<<

jharveee

Prolific Poster

Posts: 825

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:14 pm

Location: San Marcos, Ca.

Post Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:04 pm

Re: Old Safe / New Dial

NoDial2.JPG

NoDial1.JPG

So I had some time to remove the dial and dial ring in hopes I would be able to put on an emergency transfer dial and figure a way to manipulate this safe open.
The transfer dial I have wont fit the way it is. The spindle flops around. Barring some setbacks, still moving forward. The holes at 12 o clock and 6 o clock are from the La gard dial ring, guessing the other two holes were from the old dial and ring. Anyone recognize the pattern and can give me the make of the old lock?
Now it spins freely, I would say the lock has gears. It feels and sounds most like my Yale OC-5. Still can't find contact point(s). I don't believe the lock to be mounted Left Hand. More likely Right hand.? Maybe Vertical down.? Or, maybe vertical up? I was able to open the two old dial ring holes up enough to get my scope inside. I/4 inch plate steel, into air space, bout 1 1/4 inch to...what looks to be the outside hull of the Titanic. Old reddish brown flaky metal wall. I don't want to go around drilling holes where it may damage the lock. Will modify an old dial and ring to fit spindle and try once more to manipulate. Also while looking at the safe I found the back of the safe is screwed on! Every 4 to 6 inches on center is a regular screw head. I'll snap a photo and share later.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
<<

MartinHewitt

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 665

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:19 pm

Location: Germany

Post Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:13 pm

Re: Old Safe / New Dial

Have you tested for a direct entry fence?

Edit: Got a padlock. I thought something was broken, because I could often not feel any contact point and when they were very very weak. It turned out that the padlock was indeed very fine. It is just that they made the cam just about exactly the size required for operation. The problem is that it is also partly a bit to small and then the gates are advertised when dialing. This makes manipulation really quick. Not sure if there are safe locks which have the same behavior.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
<<

jharveee

Prolific Poster

Posts: 825

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:14 pm

Location: San Marcos, Ca.

Post Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:31 pm

Re: Old Safe / New Dial

I have tested to see if putting pressure on the T-handle would bind the wheels. Pretty sure it's not a direct entry. I get zero feedback from the handle.
<<

MartinHewitt

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 665

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:19 pm

Location: Germany

Post Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:45 pm

Re: Old Safe / New Dial

jharveee wrote:I have a cheap contact amp purchased off E-bay similar to the one MBA has on there website. What am I "Hearing" for?

In case of my padlock: When I turn just the cam with the dial I and do not move the wheels with it I get a scratching sound while the lever nose touches the cam. When the wheels are positioned not really wrong I get at the drop zone a scratchscratch__________scratchscratch or even a scratchscratch__________scratchscratch. If the wheels are positioned very right I get a scratchscratch_______clickscratchscratch. Obviously depending on the volume settings on the amp. :) As you have removed the SCRATCHing LG dial your chance to hear something are much better now.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
<<

jharveee

Prolific Poster

Posts: 825

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:14 pm

Location: San Marcos, Ca.

Post Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:00 pm

Re: Old Safe / New Dial

I will investigate using the amp and get some photos of the back of the safe. Thanks
Next

Return to Safes, Strongboxes & Combination Locks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot]

Don't forget to visit our sponsors for all of your lockpicking needs!
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Grop
"CA Black" theme designed by stsoftware