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Identifying a combination lock?

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Jaakko Fagerlund

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Posts: 281

Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:55 pm

Location: Finland

Post Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:54 pm

Identifying a combination lock?

Hey all

Today I got an interesting safe opening, but failed to get more than maybe one number out of it for some reason. Im not disappointed of the fail, but my mind can't leave tis alone as I really would like to know what the F was I up against.

The lock belongs to an old safe made here in Finland by Kaipio Oy, seems to be a 3 wheel lock but has no identifying markers though I remember seeing these in photos somewhere. The dial has numbers from 0 to 100 with a gap between 100 and 0 (forbidden zone). The dial ring has a star as an index mark. The dial is like a door knob, knurled on the diameter you touch. It is round even though the photo looks like some weird triangle.

Does somebody know what it is/was and has anyone got pictures of the inner workings?

IMG_2298.JPG


IMG_2304.JPG
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Location: Arizona, United States

Post Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:22 am

Re: Identifying a combination lock?

I think it is a Kromer, but it may be a Chubb. Think Chubb also uses a gap between 100 and 0 (to prevent the last number being in the forbidden zone).

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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Jaakko Fagerlund

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Posts: 281

Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:55 pm

Location: Finland

Post Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:24 pm

Re: Identifying a combination lock?

GWiens2001 wrote:I think it is a Kromer, but it may be a Chubb. Think Chubb also uses a gap between 100 and 0 (to prevent the last number being in the forbidden zone).

Gordon

Thanks, it might be either one, maybe a Kromer as the key lock is definately a Kromer, but I couldn't find any info/pics of Kromer combination locks. Especially on the internals, as I'm still stumped on why it didn't give anything.
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10ringo10

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Post Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Identifying a combination lock?

Great safe info - http://www.tresoroeffnung.DE .... many blogs including photos
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Squelchtone

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Location: Springfield MA USA

Post Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:28 pm

Re: Identifying a combination lock?

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Squelchtone

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Posts: 269

Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:16 pm

Location: Springfield MA USA

Post Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:34 pm

Re: Identifying a combination lock?

10ringo10 wrote:Great safe info - http://www.tresoroeffnung.DE .... many blogs including photos


That's Oliver Diederichsen's site! =) great guy. wrote the book on Impressioning.
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MartinHewitt

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Location: Germany

Post Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:57 pm

Re: Identifying a combination lock?

DRGM means "German Reich Utility Model" and was called this until 1945. So it is an attempt to scare away competitors from their S&G copy. The lock model at this time was called 15B, which is written on the inside of the cover. That is my 15B: viewtopic.php?f=100&t=12348
The original 15B has probably the same threading as the S&G lock. Later versions look the same, but have - I think - M8 threading. I don't know if they have the same model number. They are painted red on the inside and have hammer finish paint on the outside. Don't know when this appeared. The latest locks are numbered 30xx with xx being 11 for standard 3-wheel, 12 for standard 4-wheel and 55 for manipulation protected (the same general functionality as the tomahawk and spring, but with a disk and magnets). The 30xx locks have metal sheet cases (painted beige on the outside and nothing on the inside) and a modified bolt construction. The 15B and the metric version has a cast case. My 15B does look like manipulation would be easy (don't have a dial to test). I think the lever finger is not well made. My 3011 is very precisely built. With standard manipulation I did not get any indication. Just a flat line. Attached a dial, which is more laser pointer friendly, but I did not yet make a laser pointer holder for attachment and try it.

PS: That is the 3011: https://www.koksa.org/download/file.php?id=6742
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Jaakko Fagerlund

Active Member

Posts: 281

Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:55 pm

Location: Finland

Post Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:53 am

Re: Identifying a combination lock?

Wow...yesterday my friend drilled the safe and we scoped it together and were having difficulties. When W1 was set and W2 being dialed, W1 would occasionally bump a little. The scopes camera screen said that the spaces between discs were full of crud, so probably that's why they dragged out of place sometimes. No wonder I had serious difficulties tagging wheels.

But the best part is this: After not opening it after scoping for 30 minutes (really bad angle view and offset a little), we discovered that it was a 4 wheel lock! :D After that it took some tries and a bit of blows from a hammer but the safe finally opened. Didn't start disassembling the lock then as it was late, so the specific lock type is still unknown.

The right-ish numbers for all the wheels were pretty much the same numbers we had both jotted down on paper in our own dialing attempts. Some spot on, but mostly a bit off and always missing one of the four numbers....
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:04 pm

Re: Identifying a combination lock?

Congrats on getting it open, Jaakko. Please let us know what you find out about the lock, with pics! :)

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.

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