Star Floor Safe

[jharveee]

StarXFloorXSafeX1.JPG

StarXFloorXSafeX2.JPG

Someone brought a small Star floor safe with the push down dial into the shop the other day. It was locked and they wanted it open. We called with the serial number to obtain the combo, it didn't work. I really wanted to learn how to manipulate this safe open as I've never had my hands on one before. I even went out and purchased a Dial indicator and base. The safe was opened by drilling. The model was C-5. The safe turned out to be empty. Have a good look at the change Key Hole. Ha Ha, that will slow you down.

[Oldfast]

Did you happen to notice whether it contained LaGard or S&G wheels?

I've only encountered one of these... I'd love to see more. Soon I hope.

[jharveee]

Not sure, only saw the outer edge of the wheels. Older type hand change wheels, not the thin Lagard or sandwich Sargent Greenleaf. The back cover was not removed for repair or service as the customer only wanted it opened. Closest wheel pack I've seen would be like my Yale OC5. Never did get a look at the change key hole. I wish the safe were mine to fix and study. The National Locksmith Guide to Manipulation and Dave McOmnie books are the only photos and drawings I've seen prior. Any more information you or anyone could provide, I'd like to hear.

[Oldfast]

Did you happen to notice whether it contained LaGard or S&G wheels?

Oops, scratch this question. For some reason I was thinking about Major's
lift-out round doors. They had an old and new version which you'd find either
mesh-change S&G wheels, or, LaGard type wheels. Anyway, nevermind that. lol


On the STAR... Unfortunately I haven't much additional info or photos for you. Although I was successful in manipulating it, I was unable to retract the boltwork (fired relocker I believe). Damn shame too, cuz they had no use for it and told me from the start I could keep it. Arrrrgh! So close, yet so far away. Ah well, I learned a great deal for the next one I run into.

The only advice I might offer is to invest in a quality dial indicator. I had one ordered, but while waiting for it to arrive I picked up a cheapy from Harbor Freight and had a go with it to no avail. Admittedly, I might attribute some of this to my learning curve (being my first time), but for the most part I think it was the inconsistency of the indicator and/or holder. When my Mitutoyo arrived I went back for round 2 and things went much better. I had the combo within a couple hours.

Anyway, good for you - wanting to tackle it and wanting to learn something new. I only wish you could've had the time/opportunity. And I'll bet you would've gotten it! Yes, they're more time-consuming and tedious. And yes, readings are obtained in a radically different way than we're use to. But aside from that, everything you already know about manipulation applies here. The NLGTM has a fairly accurate description of the process. That's all I had to go on too.

p.s. The dial ring needs to be removed to create enough area
to solidly mount your magnetic base for the dial indicator.
Remove it and place your own index using whatever.

[jharveee]

Thanks for the tips. Did you find taking readings when the drive cam came back up or did you take your readings while pushing down? I did spend a few minutes trying to figure out (for Me) the best way to get readings. Pushing the Dial all the way down and then letting it come back up to meet the fence seemed to be the way for me. Yes, I have the cheapest HF dial indicator. I figured for learning it may work, but now understand the less than stellar quality could hinder my progress. Next time, I'm going to have a real go at it.

[MartinHewitt]

I think in the TNL Guide to Manipulation is a chapter about the Star.

[Oldfast]

.....I did spend a few minutes trying to figure out (for Me) the best way to get readings. Pushing the Dial all the way down and then letting it come back up to meet the fence seemed to be the way for me.

Exactly. Yep.

Yes, I have the cheapest HF dial indicator. I figured for learning it may work, but now understand the less than stellar quality could hinder my progress. Next time, I'm going to have a real go at it.

Well, give it a try. Who know's, maybe you'll have no issues at all with it.
Could've been user error on my part. After all, it was my very first try.

[magician59]

I've never seen one with a red dial. Did the owner have any idea how old it is?

[jharveee]

No, the owner didn't mention how old the safe was. After he found out it was empty, he seems to have lost all interest in it. It is still at the shop waiting for pick-up. I want to take the back off, but it's not mine to play with. I hear the re-lockers have springs that fly out and are lost when the back is removed. I'll ask him if he knows the age if I see him when he picks it up.