FAQ  •  My feedback  •  Feedback
UKLockpickers.co.uk Lockpicking supplies such as Lockpicks, tools, and more! COMMANDOLOCK.COM Military grade padlock systems lockpickshop.com A source for lockpicking supplies such as lockpicks, locksmith tools, and more!

Group 2M Hell

<<

tarboxb

Familiar Face

Posts: 158

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:06 am

Group 2M Hell

Hello all,

I am still quite new here and haven't posted in a while but I fancy myself a safe manipulator. I have cracked quite a few now and have had many quite fast openings. I also free spin virtually exclusively. Tonight I had my first real bum out though. I went to open a gun safe for someone expecting a Sargent and Greenleaf 6741 and a quick opening. A few moments in I realized things weren't right. This guy has a group 2m of the LaGard style with the tomahawk. I battled trying to feel when the fence touches the wheels and was not confident in my readings. I can't really hear the fence touch the wheels either. I have read a few posts about these and if I am not mistaken they have still managed to evade us. Has anyone successfully opened one? I really would like to. Also any info on the safe would be appreciated so I can confirm the lock is indeed a 3332.

20170920_195515.jpg

20170920_195503.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
<<

Jaakko Fagerlund

Active Member

Posts: 281

Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:55 pm

Location: Finland

Post Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:44 am

Re: Group 2M Hell

That 3332 is possible to be opened, but requires a bit of extra gear to listen to it. I have never heard of someone manuplating it open by just feel only.
<<

tarboxb

Familiar Face

Posts: 158

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:52 am

Re: Group 2M Hell

Yeah my thought was to mount some sort of a piezo element or mic to the door and record the movement through the contact area. Then I can isolate the fence contact noise and note the frequency. The frequency should change when a gate aligns and the fence contacts a different wheel.
<<

tarboxb

Familiar Face

Posts: 158

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:18 am

Re: Group 2M Hell

I have made some "progress!" I wired two piezo elements to a stereo mic jack and connected them to my computer after taping them to the back of my 6730. By rapidly entering the contact area and "dropping" the fence on the wheels I was able to simulate what occurs in one of these group 2m locks. I used audacity to record the impact and then used its spectrum analyzer to determine the frequency at the peak amplitude of the noise under varying wheel conditions. It appears that gate signatures actually do exist! Of course doing this on the real lock inside of the safe may be more difficult but we will see. The first thing I think I need to do is actually crack my 6730 by only audio frequency analysis and not taking contact readings. If I can do that then I am confident I can do the real group 2m! This certainly is exciting albeit a bit frustrating! :P

AWL
All readings taken as hertz.
79 - 1734.25
80 - 1743.5
81 - 1680.25 GATE
82 - 1732
83 - 1733.75

68 - 1780.25
69 - 1747
70 - 1649 GATE
71 - 1717.25
72 - 1760

1631 - 2nd and 3rd Gates Simultaneously
<<

Cheesehead

Newbie

Posts: 16

Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:26 am

Post Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:01 pm

Re: Group 2M Hell

Nice work! I've been wanting to give one of these a try, but I don't exactly have one lying around. So, a couple of questions...

Do you take multiple readings for the same numbers? Does the frequency fluctuate much? Also, the Hz readings change a lot from number to number, would you be willing to post a larger sample size for comparison here to satisfy my curiosity? :smile:

-Tyler
<<

tarboxb

Familiar Face

Posts: 158

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:30 am

Re: Group 2M Hell

Thank you for the kind words Tyler. I have been taking dour readings per number and sometimes they do vary quite a bit. I try to dump any "flyers." I have been working with my 6730 tonight and was convinced I was seeing "wheel signatures " in the spectrogram which would easily allow me to ID which wheel the fence was hitting but so far no dice. I ended up asking for the combo and am doing more studying of exactly how to do this. I unfortunately don't have much more meaningful data yet but will be posting a tutorial video on this process once I am confident in it. I will keep you posted!
<<

Cheesehead

Newbie

Posts: 16

Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:26 am

Post Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:51 am

Re: Group 2M Hell

Here's a link to a thread here where Daggers has done some work. Looks like it might be a bit of a slog fest. Good luck!
https://www.keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=9209
<<

Cheesehead

Newbie

Posts: 16

Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:26 am

Post Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Group 2M Hell


Return to Safes, Strongboxes & Combination Locks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot], Google [Bot]

Don't forget to visit our sponsors for all of your lockpicking needs!
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Grop
"CA Black" theme designed by stsoftware