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Yale Friction Fence Fun!!!

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tarboxb

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Post Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:11 am

Yale Friction Fence Fun!!!

So I went over someones house today to open their old bank safe and low and behold, I was greeted by the infamous Yale friction fence. I messed with the lock for about three hours before I started to feel confident that I was getting consistent enough readings to actually crack it. I have been free spinning exclusively lately but don't think I am going to be doing that with this lock. The gear drive in the lock is annoying to say the least. It is distracting and makes it difficult to feel the contact point. Due to the design of the lock, the lever only drops when turning the dial to the left. This essentially means that there is only a "right" contact point and no left contact point. In addition, the lock is dialed right, left, right, left to open. I found the contact point to be at approximately 2 however was having a lot of difficulty feeling the point consistently until I decided to tilt the dial so as to move the drive cam towards the lever nose. I finally feel like I am getting consistent enough readings to make a graph. Interestingly enough, I think I likely already have the second number because when rotating the dial to the left, after picking up the second wheel I feel a significant click as the dial rotates past L63. It only ever happens rotating left, and only after I pick up the second wheel. It seems to me that due to slop in the lock or tolerance, the lever must not be contacting the drive cam at this position but the downward force from the friction fence mechanism causes the fence to pop into and out of the second wheel gate. I believe that this is what I am feeling. I am going back tomorrow armed with my graphpaper and we will see what happens. I get the lock once I get the safe open!
yale.JPG
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tarboxb

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Post Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:39 am

Re: Yale Friction Fence Fun!!!

Open! After another 3 and a half hours tonight the dial stopped at eleven, the handle turned and the crown jewels were revealed. Nothing exciting in the safe but now I am the proud owner of a Yale OC-5!! :D I will post pictures a bit later. Now I need to get it mounted up to practice more on it.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:27 am

Re: Yale Friction Fence Fun!!!

Good work!Next lock already waiting?
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mercurial

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Location: Australia

Post Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:06 am

Re: Yale Friction Fence Fun!!!

Very well done!

With some practice, I think most people can learn to manipulate basic group two S&G locks. LaGard seems a little bit harder, but the Yale OC-5 is a serious achievement, especially when you've been doing this for a short time.

Did the clicking you felt around L63 when moving wheel toe correlate with a gate in the end?

Looking forward to seeing your future progress.
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tarboxb

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Post Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:01 am

Re: Yale Friction Fence Fun!!!

Thank you guys! It definitely was a rush! Interestingly enough, it opened on L2-R73-L57. Based on my graphs, the gates did seem quite wide and looking at the dissassembled lock, the edges are quite rounded. At one point in the manipulation during a wheel three isolation rotation, I noticed the snag around L63 again.as I said earlier, I was only feeling this before immediately after picking up wheel two which at this point had been parked at L62. After more experimentation, I came to realize that the snag was actually wheel three. The reason I only felt it after picking up wheel two is I had been parking wheel two at a high point which was preventing the fence moving into the wheel three gate. After disassembling the lock, I found one of the wheel shims and the wheel retaining ring missing. This I assume is part of why it was very difficult to feel wheels picking up. I really had to pay attention and keep track of where everything was. My S&G spoils me with how obvious the pickups are.
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tarboxb

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Post Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:04 am

Re: Yale Friction Fence Fun!!!

I think I am going to make a retaining ring out of music wire or something. Looking at the wheel post on the lock, the groove is more rounded that my S&G and LaGard.
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tarboxb

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Post Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:30 am

Re: Yale Friction Fence Fun!!!

The other interesting thing with this lock was that I really didn't get classic gate signatures at all. I found the gates where I noticed a relatively sharp drop off in an increment or so. Generally the contact point would stay level for at least 10 numbers after that and then begin to climb again. The indications were only about 1/8. Try as I might I couldn't get classic gate signatures to give me good gate centers but based on experience with other locks and gut instinct I picked one number after the drop as "gate center." While I'm sure this wasn't ideal, it was really the only option and the lock did open.
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mercurial

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Post Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:48 am

Re: Yale Friction Fence Fun!!!

A frequently overlooked gate signature is where the contact area narrows as it would at one side of the gate, but no rise (or a rise many increments later) in contact area on the other side of the gate.

In those situations, my strategy for finding gate centre is by estimation, based upon the typical classic gate signature for the type of lock in question. This is pretty much what you did, although you had to estimate based upon your experience of other locks, not having encountered the Yale OC-5 before.

This method of estimating gate centre is usually good enough. When it isn't good enough, it is sufficient to continue the manipulation, find low spots/gates on other wheels & if necessary then use those low spots to re-scan the gate in isolation, which generally will then show a more normal gate signature & thus enable finding the gate centre.

There might be some members here with spare parts to replace those missing from your wheel pack.
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tarboxb

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Post Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:10 pm

Re: Yale Friction Fence Fun!!!

Thank you for all the info mercurial. I made a post looking for the parts. Here she is!
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:08 am

Re: Yale Friction Fence Fun!!!

:spinning: I can just imagine your excitement!? Ha! WELL DONE. :yep:

....great job on fishing gates from those lengthy indications too.
And to be able to take the prize home for your collection?! NICE

Catching one or more gates through sound and feel -- I've not manipulated enough
of the Yales to say just how often this occurs, but it is by no means uncommon. It's
not so much because of slop, but age. The OC-5's are old! Although the drive cam
originally starts out larger than the wheels... many yrs of use wears both the driver
& fence... to such an extent, the fence will eventually ride on one or more wheels.

So it's always worth exploring the lock in this manner - at the start and also at certain
stages throughout the manipulation. Needless to say, using an amp with these can be
tremendously helpful sometimes. What you feel and/or hear is the fence dropping into
the gate, or more often, the fence making contact with the trailing (not leading) edge of
the gate. So you must compensate to find true center. Gates on these are normally 3-4
incs wide. Also keep in mind, since the dial is in motion, our minds' eye may have a sort
of 'delayed' reaction as to when it actually occurred. Through practice, correlating exact
point of contact has become more accurate for me. But I still need more practice.

Some of these locks can make you look brilliant! lol. Others are real difficult. Sometimes
the first challenge is just fishing out a damn contact point before you can even begin!
You're basically manipulating to find a CP so that you can start manipulating, lol.

I was having a go at one in the lockroom last week and one of the gates didn't indicate
at all. Not in the way of readings fluctuating anyway. Instead, it was nothing more than
a more pronounce contact (sound & feel). You really gotta be paying attention to catch
something like that! lol

I notice yours has a relocker (just like one of mine). I can feel the relocker
drop into the cam's gate @ 50. Was curious if you can feel that too?
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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tarboxb

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Post Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:46 am

Re: Yale Friction Fence Fun!!!

Thank you for all the info, Oldfast. This lock was definitely fun. As I said and you mentioned, the hardest part was really just finding the contact point and getting used to how the lock felt. I can see what you mean about the value of an amp on something like this. This lock was definitely the most challenging that I have had to manipulate so far. I actually told myself that if one showed up I was not ready and wouldn't be attempting it, but seeing the dial staring me down, I couldn't resist the challenge! As far as the relocker and drive cam interaction, I am really not sure. I didn't notice anything at 50 but there very well may be something. I will be sure to check for you next time I am spinning it!
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:27 am

Re: Yale Friction Fence Fun!!!

Wish I had the parts you need... but my 'spares' for Yale consist of a
handful of locks, all of which are missing the covers and wheel packs.

I'm sure you'll get crafty and figure something out to get that beauty goin'
Tip of the hat to ya again my friend. I KNOW that must've been exciting!
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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tarboxb

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Post Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:00 am

Re: Yale Friction Fence Fun!!!

I appreciate it in regards to the parts. I actually already dealt with the wheel retaining ring. I found an absolutely perfectly sized spring and cut one loop from it. It literally works so good I doubt anyone would think it wasn't original to the lock. The shim I am still missing. I am intending to measure the thickness and start there. I am a machinist so I should be able to make something that will work with relative ease. I have been cracking a lot of locks for people lately similar to what you have been doing and am finding it extremely exciting and rewarding. I have cracked seven so far in the last couple weeks or so, this one being the first. Today I cracked one of the Sentries which also has a tubular lock on it required to open it. The owner had also misplaced the key. I had never picked one of these before but did manage to SPP it. I've been using a dial indicator and bungee cords with the direct entries with great success. It is almost too easy.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:01 am

Re: Yale Friction Fence Fun!!!

tarboxb wrote:....I am intending to measure the thickness and start there. I am a machinist so I should be able to make something that will work with relative ease....

Ah yes, I forgot that's what you do. Yeah, shouldn't be all too difficult for ya then.

tarboxb wrote:I have been cracking a lot of locks for people lately similar to what you have been doing and am finding it extremely exciting and rewarding. I have cracked seven so far in the last couple weeks or so, this one being the first.

THAT'S GREAT!!

I'll tell ya; Once I got past (for the most part, lol) the obsessive/unhealthy phase of it all (took some years)... I have found it to be REALLY healthy for me in many ways. Manipulation has actually become one of several major 'staples' in my life today. Funny, because at first I just thought I had come across yet another fucked up obsession that was quickly turning my life up-side-down. May sound silly, but today it actually enriches my life in so many ways that I never thought possible. Nice to see you finding so much joy in it as well!!

I still have a few openings to post to the Chronicles... but my 'safecracking-season' ended several months ago :cry: I actually found myself battling some depression as it came to a close! Can't wait for next year. And I'm planning/hoping to make insane progress before winter comes again. SO much to learn still. There's many locks I haven't even experienced yet! I love it... a lifetime+ of learning to be had. Spin on my friend, spin on. Take pics and tell us stories when you can! Maybe I can live through you until I can get back out there myself. LOL
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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tarboxb

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Post Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:58 pm

Re: Yale Friction Fence Fun!!!

Haha, yeah it really is a lot of fun. I love the challenge of it, imagining how the lock is working inside. I was never much for jigsaw puzzles, but this... This is a different story! May I inquire as to why you only do it in the Winter? Are you off from work then or something? I have been mostly doing them after I get out of work but it can be a little draining I must admit.
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