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1st Manipulation-Older S&G-Not going well

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capt-dunc

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Post Thu May 11, 2017 8:43 pm

Re: 1st Manipulation-Older S&G-Not going well

my advice would be to go back to square one.

spend the time and do an AWL in 1 step increments, and a AWR in 1 step increments.

don't consider it a waste of time and don't consider your earlier work wasted. the more readings you do, the more you spin and park the better you get. even if you just confirm what you've done it's good.

i get so annoyed when i see people starting and trying to run in 5's or something, just take your time learning.

don't use your own shorthand on graphs and then ask for advice, just get some graph paper and treat it like a science experiment so that other's can follow what you're doing.

but most of all, don't second guess and keep on learning about the wheels, they will give up their secrets
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tarboxb

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Post Thu May 11, 2017 9:45 pm

Re: 1st Manipulation-Older S&G-Not going well

I was just going to mention that I agree with the above! It took me a good 15 hours or so of spinning before I started to get my contact points and readings accurate enough to get anything usable. Unfortunately, your first graphs are often not useful because of this. If you start over you should be much more in tune now. I would move your graphs away and only look at them later to compare them. Don't have them in the area where they may affect your new readings and give you bias. My combo setter gave me 99-1-99 today on my 6730. That was a toughy! :P
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tarboxb

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Post Thu May 11, 2017 9:47 pm

Re: 1st Manipulation-Older S&G-Not going well

All wheels was totally useless regardless of which way I went as the high points of the gates all so close together were masking each other quite successfully. Only through isolation and parking at low areas was I eventually able to get an opening.
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capt-dunc

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Post Thu May 11, 2017 10:36 pm

Re: 1st Manipulation-Older S&G-Not going well

also write on your graphs what you're thinking between stages. you can look back a month later and see what you were thinking. as you move forward you'll be your own best teacher, but only if you can remember what you did or thought
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iasithol

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Post Tue May 30, 2017 10:21 pm

Re: 1st Manipulation-Older S&G-Not going well

Ok, appreciate everyone’s help and advice. Sorry it took a while to respond but I didn’t want to come back here until I had completed what I’d been told to do which was 1) start over 2) put everything in the standard format. So I did that.

Below is a chart of my wheels, first AWL and then AWR, at 1/10th of an interval increments.

Other than the widening of the CA at 18-20 I still don’t see anything and don’t know where to go with this.

(but if I had to guess....the widening at 18-20 is a bump just before a gate? So try to find a gate at 20-22ish, isolate it to a wheel, park the wheel there and run another chart of the other two wheels AWL & AWR? -- IDK-still lost.)

Any suggestions on my next procedure?


Image
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jharveee

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Post Wed May 31, 2017 1:08 am

Re: 1st Manipulation-Older S&G-Not going well

I like 90.5 unless I have miss read your graph.?
Is your top line the Right Contact points and the
bottom line the Left Contact points.?
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tarboxb

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Post Wed May 31, 2017 3:07 am

Re: 1st Manipulation-Older S&G-Not going well

I know they say not to assume but I have had good luck in the past using educated guesses to help me reach facts. I would definitely be trying isolation. You could be right about a possible gate near your hump. It is as good of a place as any to park. Maybe high/low test approaching from the original test direction on every wheel to find which has that hump on it. Then you could either park that wheel and another at the "gate" position and run the last isolated to hopefully get a gate or maybe try to park the other wheels at a few positions and run the wheel with the hump through the area alone. Hopefully you will end up with enough clarity to confirm a gate. There is nothing wrong with thinking something is a possible and utilizing it to enhance your understanding and find truths but keep in mind that it is just a theory until you get more evidence.
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tarboxb

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Post Wed May 31, 2017 3:11 am

Re: 1st Manipulation-Older S&G-Not going well

By the way I am also thinking around 91 maybe useful. It isn't a super clear gate but another possible. That hump around 19 is pretty strong though. Also, keep in mind that sometimes you may see a hump as you exit a gate so if there is a gate there it might be before the hump as well though I would wager after.
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iasithol

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Post Wed May 31, 2017 3:36 am

Re: 1st Manipulation-Older S&G-Not going well

jharveee wrote: ...top line the Right Contact points and the
bottom line the Left Contact points...


Correct.
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femurat

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Post Wed May 31, 2017 7:15 am

Re: 1st Manipulation-Older S&G-Not going well

I'm happy you accepted our criticism constructively. Not everyone appreciate people telling them to start over again. You made a very nice graph.

Now, if your graph was inverted, you had a gate at 19. Unfortunately it's not. So, as others have already said, I'd treat the Right 91 as if it was a gate. Worst case scenario, you have a low area to park a wheel and can further investigate the others. So go ahead and make high low tests to identify the wheel this gate is on. Then park that wheel there and proceed with the next graph.

Cheers :)
An old post of mine that you'd like to read is missing pictures? PM me and I'll fix them.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Wed May 31, 2017 11:02 am

Re: 1st Manipulation-Older S&G-Not going well

There is no gate visible on this graph. With the new graph I would park w1&w2 right at 90 or 91 and then scan left w3. I would start the w3 scan where it is after positioning w1&w2, i.e. at around 92 and work it up. The area between 0 and 50 is probably the most interesting.
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iasithol

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Post Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:45 am

Re: 1st Manipulation-Older S&G-Not going well

Ok, here is W1&2 @R90.5. W3 scanned Left.

I'm so depressed..... :slam:

Image
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tarboxb

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Post Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:43 am

Re: 1st Manipulation-Older S&G-Not going well

This at least shows that the high point you were seeing around 19 was on wheel three. Maybe try parking wheel three at 21 and run 1 and 2 together? It is possible there is a gate around 21 on wheel three but the parking position of wheels 1 and 2 masked the gate. No guarantees obviously just trying to make some educated guesses.
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jharveee

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Post Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:58 pm

Re: 1st Manipulation-Older S&G-Not going well

I would pretend 90 was a gate on wheel 3 and graph wheels 1&2 around right to see if I could catch another / better gate. or try to determine which wheel the low spot belongs to.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: 1st Manipulation-Older S&G-Not going well

I would do the same, but just be cause it is the low point. I don't think there is a gate next to 19/20 possible, because next to it it is still higher than at 19/20.

I think the lock has been mounted with the spline key at the wrong position. 55+50=5, 62+50=12. That would be the normal range. Or maybe the lock allows only one spline key position for right-hand mounting and it had to be mounted left-hand. Are the hinges at the left side of the door?
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