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LaGard 2200 series differences?

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madsamurai

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Post Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:48 pm

LaGard 2200 series differences?

Just picked up a LaGard 2200 keylock on ebay and looks like making a pick for it should be easy enough... In the mean time, I've been trying to find out details about the rest of the 2200 series; seems there's also a 2240 and 2270, but I can't find anything documenting the differences between them (or if there are more in the series). Does anyone know what those differences are or where I can find those details? Lockmasters only lists the 2200, MBA only lists the 2270, and the KabaMas website only shows the 2270 currently available... and I've only seen mention of the 2240 on lockwiki, but they don't actually say anything about it. Seems they all use the same keys, so I would think a pick that works for one should work for all of them, but I'd like to know that for sure before I start.

Thanks, Chad :)
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:46 pm

Re: LaGard 2200 series differences?

The 2270 has a key post (?) and another 2200 has a solid key. That might be the 2240.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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madsamurai

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Post Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:15 am

Re: LaGard 2200 series differences?

MartinHewitt wrote:The 2270 has a key post (?) and another 2200 has a solid key. That might be the 2240.

Well, my 2200 here has a post, and pics of the 2270 on MBA show a post... Could be the 2240 is solid, as I can't seem to find any other references to it besides lockwiki, or any pictures. I just found a pick here that says it's for the 2270, 2212, and 2226, so apparently there are even more in the series (tho I think 2226 is the part number for the escutcheon?). I'm starting to doubt the strength of my google-fu...

Interesting lock, tho... basically the same as a 4-wheel dial lock except with a key that sets the wheels all at the same time.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:33 am

Re: LaGard 2200 series differences?

I think it's a three.wheel lock. One slot is for the cam.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Jaakko Fagerlund

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Post Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:36 am

Re: LaGard 2200 series differences?

I've tried previously to find the difference too and didn't find anything tangible. I think one pick opens them all and the simplest tool is just a rod that has been drilled from the end for the post and turned down to leave a little bit of the diameter in the end and a slot cut into it to interact with the wheels. The end diameter has to have a length that is smaller than the space between two discs to turn it around in the lock.

As for opening, movie style stethoscopes is enough with the tool :)
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madsamurai

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Post Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:59 pm

Re: LaGard 2200 series differences?

@Martin, is definitely 4 wheels, I took it apart... cam is turned by the end of the key and is not bitted. Imho, that's one of the things that makes it easy... you always know exactly how far to turn the cam to leave its gate under the fence. Then you can just work each wheel until the fence drops in and should be able to use any wheel or the cam to actually pull the bolt. It's hard to see, but it looks to me like the wheel gates actually push the fence rather than the cam wheel which doesn't seem to make contact.

@Jaakko, from the little I've been able to find it looks like they've changed the spacers from all four being flat brass to a single one that's brass and three plastic. Other than that, the best I've been able to find is that the 2200 is considered obsolete and the 2270 is current. I've seen the picks that are available and they are what you described, tho I'm not sure I like it... seems like there would be a lot of accidental bumping when trying to slip between the nubs to go from one wheel to the next. I'm thinking of a slightly different approach, but nothing ground-breaking... I might make both styles and see which works out best. Stethoscope seems like the right move for this one, otherwise not sure if/how you'd be able to feel the gates (and many false gates on each wheel).
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capt-dunc

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Post Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:07 pm

Re: LaGard 2200 series differences?

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madsamurai

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Post Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:32 pm

Re: LaGard 2200 series differences?

Thanks, Capt-Dunc... good info there. That pick is almost identical to the one I found (http://www.lockpick.me/05-chanpin/p-001-1.asp?id=4777). The advantage of that design is that the slot fits the nubs/teeth so you can move forward or back easily, or even wiggle it a bit I guess... but to me the disadvantage is you have to slip it between the teeth to get onto the next one. I was thinking a simple flag would be better than the slotted ring... could be wider (maybe even notched) so easier to keep from slipping off the tooth you're working on, could be backed to the start position without the risk of bumping other wheels or the wheel you just set and then moved to the next wheel, and if you overset and need to bring it back you could just spin it all the way around.
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Jaakko Fagerlund

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Post Mon May 01, 2017 7:53 am

Re: LaGard 2200 series differences?

madsamurai wrote:Thanks, Capt-Dunc... good info there. That pick is almost identical to the one I found (http://www.lockpick.me/05-chanpin/p-001-1.asp?id=4777). The advantage of that design is that the slot fits the nubs/teeth so you can move forward or back easily, or even wiggle it a bit I guess... but to me the disadvantage is you have to slip it between the teeth to get onto the next one. I was thinking a simple flag would be better than the slotted ring... could be wider (maybe even notched) so easier to keep from slipping off the tooth you're working on, could be backed to the start position without the risk of bumping other wheels or the wheel you just set and then moved to the next wheel, and if you overset and need to bring it back you could just spin it all the way around.

Your idea is sound, but the thing is that the original way is easier to manufacture. Other than that, it comes down to personal preference of what type is 'easier' or more convenient to use. So can't tell for you what works for you, best to test it out :)

You could make it like the original and then just file away from the end ring if you want to test your flag idea.
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mastersmith

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Post Mon May 01, 2017 8:49 pm

Re: LaGard 2200 series differences?

Chad, I have a mounted solid post key lock if you want to check one out. Jut let me know and we'll get together.
"All ye who come this art to see / to handle anything must cautious be...." Benjamin Franklin
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madsamurai

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Post Tue May 02, 2017 8:55 pm

Re: LaGard 2200 series differences?

That'd be great, I'll send you a PM :)
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MartinHewitt

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Post Thu May 04, 2017 9:55 pm

Re: LaGard 2200 series differences?

Found my 2270. You are right. 4 wheels.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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MartinHewitt

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Post Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:57 pm

Re: LaGard 2200 series differences?

In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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madsamurai

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Post Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:08 pm

Re: LaGard 2200 series differences?

MartinHewitt wrote:Btw. there is also the M-Locks KL3903


Interesting... I assume a straight-up copy of the LG, or did they throw in some modifications? No pics of the keys but I'm guessing the same as well...
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MartinHewitt

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Post Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:16 pm

Re: LaGard 2200 series differences?

A straight-up copy of the LG minus the false gates plus a little bit thicker key post.

PS: Some more small modifications. Different springs. Clearly different die. But all the important construction points and also the wheels are the same.

PPS: Keys are interchangeable and the M-Locks keys are made to look like LG keys.
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In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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