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Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:46 pm
by MartinHewitt
840 minutes.

w3: Clear gate indications at 30, 63 and 97. Due to the form of the gate the right one is most probably 97.
w2: On a new scan a very well formed gate at 61, one at 80 and probably one at 50. A general low area (right contact point 12 0/8) around 5-20. From the distances of 61 to the neighboring gates and the form of the gate 61 should be the true gate.
w1: Not much movement. Mostly at 12 0/8. Sometimes up to 12 2/8. At 42.5 and 75 dips down to 11 7/8. The distance of the dips is exactly as it should be on this wheel, but measurements are not very precise. The dips might be there by chance.

Should I take one of the dips at w1 and look at w2? Or should I look at w1 with w2 at the low area around 5-20?

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:52 am
by MartinHewitt
I think I will rescan w1. And btw. I have the impression, that the clicking sound gets fainter and fainter the lower the lever goes.

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:11 am
by femurat
Good choice. I'd rescan wheel #1 too. #1 around left, #2 at right 61, #3 at left 97.
Take your time and make a graph.

Good luck :)

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:01 pm
by MartinHewitt
YES! I can confirm, that the 6630 is not a Group 1 lock. Open in 14:57.

So I made a rescan of w1 with LR7.5L97. A new dimple at 7.5 appeared, the dimple at 42 got deeper and the dimple at 75 vanished. Not perfect, but something to work on. The signal at 42 was the deepest. So I just tried 42/61/97. The contact point was 11 6/8. So 42 was not that bad. Just in case the form of w3 was misleading I tried 42/61/30 and OPEN! I have attached the all-in-one sheet.

Before I mount a lock with fence lever control device and look at it the opening time of the 6630 must improve.

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:13 pm
by tarboxb
CONGRATULATIONS!!!! Good job! When I start to get better I am going to need to try my hand at this!

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:37 pm
by MartinHewitt
Thanks! The path 6730 -> 6642 -> 6630 is definitely a good way to learn. Mounted inside a safe the 6630 is probably even more difficult. Well mounted the lock is not moving as much and it will probably be more difficult to optimize the lever nose wheel. Some kind of vibrator (Electric tooth brush? Hitachi Magic Wand?) might help though. Also the sound of the contact point is probably more difficult to when mounted in a safe. I tried to listen with a flathead(?) stethoscope on the wooden board, but that was here more difficult than the plain ear. Maybe on a metal door it would be easier? Maybe also the other stethoscope type would be better. I think the high frequencies are more important for which this type of stethoscope is not that good.

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:43 pm
by tarboxb
I have tried a stethoscope several times without success though it was a cheap piece of crap. I have been feeling the contact points lately but I know that the 6630 is a totally different animal and that may not be so easy. I will look into the 6642.

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:46 pm
by tarboxb
It's more difficult than the 6730? Looks to be the same basic design. Are the tolerances just tighter?

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:01 pm
by MartinHewitt
Do you mean the 6642? The 6642 feels the same as the 6730, just the graphs are different due to the false gates.

With the 6630 the feeling is really difficult, but perhaps not so difficult that some people would prefer feeling to listening as the sound is also very faint. I start from around 10, then move quickly something like 10 -> 10 2/8 -> 10 1/8 -> 10 3/8 -> 10 2/8 -> 10 4/8. When the nose roller collides with the cam it gives a faint sound and again when the roller leaves the cam. Especially this combination distinguishes the contact sound from any other sounds from the lock which happen only in one direction (mostly dial movement). The sound is so faint, that running water somewhere in the house makes it difficult to hear and a flushing toilet impossible. If you move the dial slowly there won't be any sound. This single reading of the dial is slower than that of the 6730. Additionally because the nose roller is designed to be off-center a single reading is not enough. After setting a combination to be tested the first reading of the contact point might be 12 4/8. After playing a bit on the dial the reading might be 13 1/8, then 12 2/8 and after some rapping 12 0/8. So for each point on the graph I made multiple reads and took the lowest value.

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:03 pm
by MartinHewitt
That's my thread about the 6642:
viewtopic.php?f=100&t=12010

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:07 pm
by tarboxb
I gotcha! I didn't actually notice the false gates but I see them now. I will have a look into that! Thank you.

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:28 pm
by capt-dunc
well done, i guess this means i'll be driven mad by my opening before you.

i've gone with a vernier scale and mic and within 12 points of graphing produced the best ever classic gate signature you've ever seen, problem is it still doesn't want to wheel id, nor anything else. at least i've shown it's not my accuracy or sense of feel, think i might have to take the best 6 numbers and run them in all valid combos at plus and minus 1 and 2.

that aside, well done once again, this has been interesting to follow

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:14 am
by MartinHewitt
Thanks, and yes, it seems I have lost in our struggle for insanity. (Are you sure it is not a 6630 in 6730's clothing?)

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:04 am
by madsamurai
Congrats, Martin! Bet that open felt pretty awesome after all that back and forth. Quite the victory!

BTW, the ebay seller changed the shipping on that 6642 to allow shipping to the US, so I'm thinking I might grab one... as I expected, shipping is almost as much as the lock itself so I'm looking at about $72 total, but after a few months of searching I don't think I'm going to find it any cheaper. More than I really want to spend, but I'm getting to the point where all the next-step locks for me are more expensive than I'd like... almost as bad as a drug addiction...

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:54 am
by femurat
Congrats for the opening. I knew you could do it!

And thanks for the 6642 suggestion, I just bought it. I paid 50 euro for it, shipping included. It should arrive by the end of the month.

Cheers :)