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My nemesis: S&G 6630

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capt-dunc

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Post Fri May 19, 2017 11:23 pm

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

i've called it on my opening. after starting over with an amp and vernier, i got finer copies of my first graphs showing the same things, wheel id was all over the place or nowhere to be seen (28.5 had shown well on w1 and w3, with no sign of it on w2, it was 27.5 on w2). from my 9 pages of graphing and wheel testing i recorded which numbers had looked good and how many times, ie i had 42, 44, 44, 46, 48, 49; add them up and divide by 6 to get 45.5.

i had 4 possibles, 28.5, 45.5, 64 and 84. which gave me 16 possible valid combinations, ran them all and no opening so called it.

with the lock open i dialed it open at 66, 27.5, 45.5. so if i'd run all my combinations as +/- 1 or 2 it'd of been a success.

worst combination i've ever encountered, still good learning.

i'm off camping for a week so i've treated myself to a solar charger for my amp, all i need now is some more graph paper and some beers and i'm set for some lagard fun in the sun
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sat May 20, 2017 12:02 am

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

How do you ID the wheel? I found in my 6730 a offset of 5 to be better than the standard 10.

I think I will try next my Kromer 3011. No idea how difficult that will be. It has no counter measures, but is probably more precise.

Happy camping!
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capt-dunc

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Post Sat May 20, 2017 1:00 am

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

off by 10 either way, although 5's does sound better and make sense. if not 10 off then using a known high spot. parking and running wheels in isolation either an arbitrary park ie run 0-0-x, or parking a wheel at a known low spot or suspected low spot and running the others.

looking back over my paperwork i see i used a known bad value from my awl graph first and when that failed used a different known bad value to try and id the best looking number, when that failed to yield i went for the next best 2 presenting numbers and went 10 off each side on both of them. then moved to graphing 0-0-x, 0-x-0, and x-0-0.
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femurat

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Post Sat May 20, 2017 5:12 am

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

capt-dunc wrote:from my 9 pages of graphing and wheel testing i recorded which numbers had looked good and how many times, ie i had 42, 44, 44, 46, 48, 49; add them up and divide by 6 to get 45.5.


This doesn't make sense and shouldn't work. But it did. I'm puzzled.
Were the numbers dialed the same direction? If not this could be the reason for the difference. From 42 to 49 is too much to be rotational conversion.
Can we see the gate area you amplified to find gate center on the graphs?

Great job :)
An old post of mine that you'd like to read is missing pictures? PM me and I'll fix them.
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femurat

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Post Sat May 20, 2017 5:16 am

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

About wheel identification, it's a good idea to try 5 increments if 10 fails.
It's a bad idea to use a high spot because it will shadow the gate.

Cheers :)
An old post of mine that you'd like to read is missing pictures? PM me and I'll fix them.
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capt-dunc

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Post Sat May 20, 2017 1:00 pm

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

i'll definitely try off by 5 in future. i suspect that off by 5 may often yield good results because of raised areas either sides of gates and that's where my broad range of figures comes from in the forties. if i look at my averaging for points of interest (poi) in the 20's i see; 29, 28.5, 28, 29, 28, 28.5. you don't need to be the world's best decoder to see there's a gate there.

in the 40's there's a wide range because i've taken these figures in isolation, after each graph i ran i note underneath any values which i think are worth potential further exploration. this is purely from that graph and that graph only with no thought given to earlier readings. these might not be classic gate signatures, they could be the start or end of plateaus or even points where the graph has stepped out and not spiked back in. in other words they may be poi's at the outside edge of raised areas by the gate, hence the spread.

with similar numbers cropping up over and over again across multiple graphs and having redone several graphs at a finer scale and using an amp and vernier to verify my freehand and eyeball graphs (rule out human error), i knew it was worth a shot to form an average.

my lock opened on 45.5 for the 3rd number, with the pin on the cam accounting for a 0.5 shift (rotational conversion) and a 0.75 tolerance, the 44's and 46 are good, the 42, 48 and 49 will be from variations beside the gate that have caught my eye.
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capt-dunc

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Post Sat May 20, 2017 1:24 pm

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

using a known bad value for wheel id:

not something i'd do straight away but it can be handy to try. if the bad value is taken from an awl or awr graph then we don't know which wheel it's present on, if we use it for a wheel id test then if it's on the same wheel as the gate we're trying to wheel test then it'll show, if it's on one of the other wheels it may shadow one reading it may shadow both. either way it can be worth a try on awkward wheels, when you've reached the point when it's as good to id high spots an build up a profile of each wheel as it is to id another marginal drop in.

i'm about to start on a lagard with a loose dial and i think that i'll be doing a lot of wheel profiling.
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capt-dunc

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Post Sat May 20, 2017 10:00 pm

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

one final point relating to keeping your sanity when spinning, i've just made an in-line audio connector box with a push to make switch. so i can run a line from a mic or pickup in and a second line out to amp or headphones. the connection through is only live when you press a little button on the box, so you don't have to listen to wheels dragging and picking up when you're spinning, just press the button when you take a reading or want to listen. better for you ears and better for your brain.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sat May 20, 2017 11:49 pm

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

I am sure such a tool would be useful for a 6630. What pickup and amp did you use?
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capt-dunc

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Post Sun May 21, 2017 1:16 am

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

i used an ez amp clone from china, it works fine. otherwise i've several piezo mics which i can run to a crate taxi, which is a fairly large portable amp that runs from the mains or a motorcycle battery internally. you can fill a small church hall with music and use a mic for about 7 hours on a full charge. you can boost low, low/mid, high/mid and high frequencies separately to tune in and you can run multiple mics in if needed on a real world safe. then listen out loud at whatever volume you want or run headphones from it.
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femurat

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Post Mon May 29, 2017 9:36 am

Re: My nemesis: S&G 6630

Thanks for the clarifications capt-dunc, I'm no longer puzzled now.

Happy spinning everyone :)
An old post of mine that you'd like to read is missing pictures? PM me and I'll fix them.
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