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S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

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tarboxb

Newbie

Posts: 17

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:20 pm

S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

Hey guys. I am new here and have been diving into safe manipulation. I manipulated a direct entry fence Sentry 1250 and a La Gard 3330. I had two failed attempts which each lasted five or more hours on the La Gard, each time learning the combination and studying how the lock responded. I read Oldfast's posts regarding the shadowing effect and on the next attempt I managed to get it open in about four hours. After that, I did it again with another combination in two hours. Then my S&G 6730 arrived... I mounted it up and went to work. After many hours I finally gave up. I asked for the number and studied my graphs. I had actually found number two and three at one time (I ended up abandoning three for some reason) but one had eluded me entirely. After this I decided to try again and eight hours worth of manipulation later, I took the cover off and had a look. Turns out that again I had found the second number and third number. I had somehow determined that the second gate was on wheel one though. :???: Needless to say the lock wasn't opening. What I am looking for is someone with more experience to have a look at these graphs and let me know what they are thinking. I am not even going to show my first try's graphs. I think part of my problem was having a hard time recognizing the right contact point precisely and consistently as well as this dial and ring reading much different than my La Gard. I initially thought that this guy would go smoothly compared to the La Gard but I have since been proven wrong. The gate signatures are not as clear and in many cases the left contact point remains silent even during a gate signature. I know practice makes perfect and I am sure I will get it eventually but I want to study what I have done and figure out where I went wrong. I obviously am also having technical difficulties with high/low tests. I realize that this a recurring theme here and I am considering not doing them anymore and rather always using isolation instead. I am also thinking that this lock is just too precise and the dialing tolerance too tight to make graphs every 2.5 increments. I notice Oldfast in particular does every 2 increments unless he notices the lock is particularly sloppy.

Now, looking at my graphs, I noted an obvious gate on my first AWL rotation which turns out was on wheel 2. I also noticed two potential gates, one at 48 and another at 73 or so. Interestingly enough, number one turned out to be 73! I wish I pursued that a little bit more. 48 was nothing. I decided to test the gate at 34.5. I moved one wheel at a time from the number and noted when the contact area moved, as soon as I moved wheel three it opened up so I decided that it was on wheel 3, it wasn't. In hindsight, I think I may have accidentally moved all of the wheels off the target when I did this... After doing a graph of 1 and 2 AR with 3 on L33, I noticed the gate again around 33-35. At this point I amplified it, made up my mind it was at 34.5 and through a high/low test tagged it to wheel 1. Several graphs in, I located wheel three's gate at 28.5. After a bunch of brute forcing, how/low tests, etc. I finally gave up. Obviously I was quite close. In hindsight I think I see a slight gate signature with the peaks on either side but no fall on the right contact point and the fall but no rise on the left contact point around the area where the first wheel's gate is.

I'm sorry if this is long and rambly, I am just trying to explain the manipulation to the best of my ability and my thought process so it can be critiqued. Fire away!
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tarboxb

Newbie

Posts: 17

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:27 pm

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

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tarboxb

Newbie

Posts: 17

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:29 am

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

At it again! I have been going about 5-6 hours so far and have deduced #2 is R73. I started with an AWL rotation and noted several potential gates, including this one (L74) but nothing was definitive. I did an AWR rotation, hoping things would be more obvious and R73 is almost certainly a gate. I moved one wheel at a time off of it (correctly this time) and it is almost certainly W2. W2 has indicated first each time so far on this lock. I still have a couple suspects from the first graph and doing another graph now, 1&3AR, 2@R73 and things are looking good. Much more graph definition and the contact points are tighter. I am confident that I at least have wheel two. Now hopefully I can zero in on one or three. This lock is being a real challenge for me so far but that is what I enjoy about this. I have spent nearly 100% of my time on this thing since I got it. I even had it on lunch at work. Again constructive criticism as to my technique is much appreciated!
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Jaakko Fagerlund

Familiar Face

Posts: 237

Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:55 pm

Location: Finland

Post Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:59 am

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

Instead doing 1&3 AR/AL and parking W2, park wheel 1 at something low you know or just pick a random number, then park your W2 and zip through W3 for any suspects or low points. It is quick to go through and if you find a gate, then it is definately wheel 3. Then you can confirm your W2 gate and if both show results, brute force W1 for open.
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tarboxb

Newbie

Posts: 17

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:02 am

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

Sounds like sound logic! Thank you! I am already half way through this graph though so I think I will finish it but in the future that sounds very logical!
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tarboxb

Newbie

Posts: 17

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Post Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:11 am

Re: S&G 6730 Manipulation Nightmare

It really is amazing how different but also similar my AWL and AWR graphs are. That little bit of offset from the flys really makes a lot of difference! I am confident I can get this lock this time. I just need to focus and stick with it. I see some graphs and they are so simple and definitive. This thing isn't. It is probably at least some technique as I am very new at this, but I wonder if I just got a particularly tricky lock. I am getting used to reading the dial accurately and consistently as well as finding both contact points accurately. I was contemplating buying a 6741 because I figured the wider dialing tolerance should make it a bit easier to manipulate but bought this because I figured I would learn more from it.

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