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Re: Chubb combination lock fail

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:10 pm
by capt-dunc
hi mate if you look back at your first graphs the awl shows a definite step inwards on the left and right contact points between 37.5 and 40. this edge of a plateau is mentioned by mark bates as a thing not to overlook.

from your first graphs i would of said that the POI (points of interest) on the alw were, 20-30 (looking either side of 25), 37.5-40 and 90-92.5.
from the awr; 22.5, 37.5-40, 47.5-52.5, 65 and 75-80.

with 22.5 and 37.5-40 showing on both graphs i would of re dialed these areas in 1 step increments to pin down a good number.

Re: Chubb combination lock fail

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:40 pm
by ratlock
Hi Capt Dunc good to hear from you again. I ve hit another problem. This lock came off ebay. and I didnt give at too close scrutiny before putting it on a mount, so it would be picking it blind.
However, Changed the combo tonight and find the wheels are slipping. Is it a pig to strip it and fix it. Or is it a throw away item once it has this fault.


Mucked about with it and its gripping properly again. A spray with oil and a few tests before next time.

Re: Chubb combination lock fail

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:22 pm
by MHM
ratlock wrote:Hi Capt Dunc good to hear from you again. I ve hit another problem. This lock came off ebay. and I didnt give at too close scrutiny before putting it on a mount, so it would be picking it blind.
However, Changed to combo tonight and find the wheels are slipping. Is it a pig to strip it and fix it. Or is it a throw away item once it has this fault.


Mucked about with it and its gripping properly again. A spray with oil and a few tests before next time.


Hey Ratlock.

I'd strip it when you have the time (and another Group 2 lock to play with); every time I look at the guts of one of these things I learn something new, even if the lock itself is a dud.

You're doing better than me, I'm stalled on mine and haven't looked at it in about a month.

Re: Chubb combination lock fail

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:29 pm
by MartinHewitt
A disassembling, cleaning and a very _thin_ coat of good oil (not a spray and not WD40) won't hurt. If a wheel is slipping turn the hole for the change key by 90° and see if it is now holding. If there is a way to adjust the turning resistance, then it should be IMHO as soft as possible but still as hard as necessary for you to feel when you pick up a wheel.

Re: Chubb combination lock fail

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:46 pm
by ratlock
I mucked about with the change key and it seems to be gripping. Flooded it with silicone spray though. Trying to teach wife and daughter how to reset the combo is proving
a bit of a problem though..

Hi MHM. good to hear from you too. Every lock I ever picked this far Ive had failures to start with, this one is no exception. But boy ive learned loads this week. Thanks to all.

Re: Chubb combination lock fail

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:16 pm
by ratlock
Right, Im feeling much more positive about this now. Changed 3 things since yesterday
1. Fixed change wheels, which may have been slipping.
2. Took advice and went down to One step graduations on the graph, instead of 2.5 graduations.
3.Shut myself away outside in the green house with no distractions.

Definate gate around 81. Possible at 66 and somthing worth a look at 9.5

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Re: Chubb combination lock fail

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:22 pm
by MartinHewitt
Yup, 80 looks like a gate. Now identify the wheel. (Most probably w3) The other indications ... not sure. They look rather thin. You should also try to close the gap around 0. It is not easy due to the drop zone and even more so as you read every number, but most of it should be doable at least on one side. If you instructed your CCGs well w3 can't be in this region. Nonetheless there might be something interesting. If the gate is at w3 you can either stay with w3 turning right to 80 or you can change to turning left with your look probably without any correction. The next step is then scanning the other two wheels together with the found wheel at 80.

Re: Chubb combination lock fail

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:15 pm
by ratlock
Thanks MartinHewitt. Hopefully get some more time without kids tommorow and try another graph.

Re: Chubb combination lock fail

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:11 pm
by ratlock
Sargent & Greenleaf 0 Ratlock 1

It was a struggle to be honest. Yesterdays graph looked good. Started looking for second number today, graph seemed to show 93ish so tried the best two graph points from yesterday, and the one hopefull from today in various permutations. Blank, nothing.

Then thought take the two from yesterday, (i checked the strong looking was 81 wheel 3) and started dialing in -/66/81 with the first blank number going up in 2 digit increments, (see "X" s going along the bottom of the graph left to right).
It opened on the combination 42/66/81.

Two questions really. Apart from obvious human error, the graph today trying to find the next number by parking wheel 3 at 81 and moving wheels 1 and 2. It seems to show good variation at around 93, which later was found false,and the number 42 that got it open with the first number didnt really come up on the radar at all.

To help me in my learning curve along to the next cobo lock, what would you more experianced guys do differant.? Or am I heading in the right direction with the methology.?

Well here is my first sargent and greenleaf class 2 combination safe lock opened.

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Re: Chubb combination lock fail

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:09 pm
by MartinHewitt
Congratulations, ratlock!

Regarding your new graph. I would have said, that a gate is at 55. And I have to say, the graph looks strange. On your first graph the right contact point at 81 was around or at least near 3.5. On the second it is a mostly flat line at 3.8. That should IMHO not be. Can your CCGs confirm the combination?

Re: Chubb combination lock fail

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:59 pm
by ratlock
She said first number was 43. It also dropped at 42. she said the other numbers were spot on. I tried the 55 area too and the 9 area in some trial numbers. The 93 looked the most dramatic movement on the second graph.
To be honest trying numbers 0 to 100 in 2 number steps for the first number was the last bullet in the magazine for me. If it hadnt opened with this it would have been
1-0 to S &G again.
I will keep practicing on this lock a few more resets before I go back to the chubb. Ive anew soldering iron coming this week so hope to make a better mic to help with accuracy.

Re: Chubb combination lock fail

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:08 pm
by MartinHewitt
How did you for your scan with w3@81? Something like four times right to 0, two times left to 81 and right to the drop zone? Then two times right to 99, two times left to 81 and right to the drop zone? And so on?

Re: Chubb combination lock fail

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:29 pm
by ratlock
All wheels left starting at 85. Then clockwise past 85 once, stop at 81, check left/right contacts (moving anti clockwise to check), mark on graph. Then anti clockwise back past 85 once,(so a full turn past 85 to the next number up so you can feel
all wheels resistance) and move all wheels to next number up 86 and repeat.

Re: Chubb combination lock fail

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:46 pm
by MartinHewitt
Sounds right.

Re: Chubb combination lock fail

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:33 pm
by ratlock
I know Im trying to run before I can crawl. But I bought a 4 wheel brass Chubb combination lock and dial. It arrived in the post yesterday. Heres a peek inside.

The lock on its own, without the dial, and with cam wheel removed, is a whopping 1.95 KG. But despite its great and heavy engineering, I think this one may have problems ive read in about, in books.

The wheels are lighter at the gate, and the lever drops in at the 12 o clock position without a spring (gravity only). So if vibration is applied to the lock. The wheels will settle with the lighter side of the wheel upmost (the gates cause a light side to the wheel), and the lever naturaly drops into place.
Its such a shame this flaw wasent foreseen, its such a great engineered lock.

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