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Big Red safe locks

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madsamurai

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Post Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:08 pm

Big Red safe locks

I've been seeing these Big Red safe locks here and there lately, just wondering if any of you guys have had a chance to put hands on any of these yet or have any opinions on them? They look nearly identical to the S&G designs, with the addition of fancy colors, and their group 2m locks looks to have a plastic lever control arm (not necessarily a bad thing), but they claim to be built stronger than S&G...
http://www.bigredsafelocks.com
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mdc5150

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Post Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:07 pm

Re: Big Red safe locks

They are pretty much a ripoff of the 6730. They are made by LaGard and Amsec is putting them on a lot of safes.

There are a couple different big red locks, group 2 and group 2m.

I despise the group 2m because as you try to operate the lock or change the combo the anti manipulation BS they put on will throw the dial off of specific numbers if you try to set them there. The group 2 are ok, I would trust the 6730 more.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:31 pm

Re: Big Red safe locks

mdc5150 wrote:They are made by LaGard

Do you know this or is this a guess? The circlip on the fence lever control device reminds me indeed on La Gard, but Big Red (have the locks a cinnamon taste?) does compare itself favorably with La Card (http://www.bigredsafelocks.com/deadloc-technology/) which I believe they wouldn't do to their supplier.

mdc5150 wrote:I despise the group 2m because as you try to operate the lock or change the combo the anti manipulation BS they put on will throw the dial off of specific numbers if you try to set them there. The group 2 are ok, I would trust the 6730 more.

I have no practical experience with the fence lever control device bearing locks, but the 6730 is so easy to manipulate, that I would not trust it to keep my safe closed. I have here two higher quality manipulation protected locks which I will have to mount to test them. They are a La Gard 1985 (i believe) and a Kromer/Lebtig 3097. The La Gard is also with a FLCD, but of higher production quality. Maybe that enabled it to be a Group 1 lock. The Kromer is without UL rating. It has its own mechanism based on magnets. IF the make problem with numbers e.g. in the range of 0 - 20, then I would prefer using them and avoid 0 - 20 for all wheels than using a 6730. But I am preferring a 6730 if I have to manipulate it open. :)

PS: They are listed at VdS as:
Michael J .Walsh & Associates, Inc., dba; Big Red Safe Locks
P.O. Box 377, 13673 Sprague River Road
US 97624-0377 Chiloquin OR
Phone 541 533 2403
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MartinHewitt

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Post Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:44 pm

Re: Big Red safe locks

This seems to be the patent for the change key clutch: https://www.google.com/patents/US8443639
This is probably the patent for their improved fence lever control device: https://www.google.com/patents/US8667821
And another patent(?): https://www.google.com/patents/US20120144884
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madsamurai

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Post Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Big Red safe locks

Thanks for those links, Martin... From those patents, it looks like they've made some potential improvements over the S&G versions, tho they're very close to identical... I just wonder if the machining/materials quality matches up. Aluminum wheels instead of brass, plastic fence control arm in the 2M, and looks like cast zinc or some such on the lever... I may have to try to pick one up cheap just to satisfy my curiosity and have one in my collection.

I have the LaGard 3332, there is some springiness in the 93-13 range from the FLCD that will bounce the wheel back a little, but it doesn't seem to affect actually setting or dialing those numbers Left. Trying to set 96-98 R will sometimes spring further than intended if you let it... I believe the FZ on this one is 90-10, not 0-20, but would have to look it up again to be sure. This is the only 2M I've had my hands on so far, so maybe others are more/less difficult to dial in the FZ range?
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Anarchy_won

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Post Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:57 pm

Re: Big Red safe locks

I have installed a couple of the Big Red Group 2M's, and have 1 in my collection.
build quality of the ones I have seen is as good as S&G, I will do a tear down post one weekend soon.
(17:44:28) HAL 9000 Sez: LockSport is full of children who throw fits because low priced low security products sold in discount department stores do not meet their arbitrary expectations.

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